Myconid Spore King - Monk Solo

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are the only one gate keeping the definition of a "solo kill" under YOUR OWN standards. There's a reason the wiki had a whole section about what is and what is not allowed for outside buffs, and for which classes. Convenient that you deleted all of that to support your own argument. Anyone can claim anything is true if they're the ones editing the history books. Do I need to copy/paste it every time you post to remind everyone that all of this is your OWN AGENDA that you're trying to push, and goes against the very standards that the creator of the challenge set.
"In general the idea is that you could zone in and kill the mob on your own. Outside buffs are not permitted for casters; melee can get as many buffs as they like as they are already at a considerable disadvantage."

It doesn't get any more clear than that. Nothing you can ever say will change what the original standards for the challenge were. Funny how you only saw the need to change things after someone posts a video like this, but nooo you're not envious at all, right?


Needing a separate category for an unbuffed kill WITH no consumables would imply that it is possible to do under those conditions in the first place - News Flash: It's not. How about this, if you want to create a rank higher than what was previously listed, then how about you go out and prove that its possible under those conditions before you make up said rank.


LOL OK - So let me get this straight, now raid gear is considered outside help too?? Jesus, the levels of copium here are insane.


No one here is trying to "default them to being all the same" at all. We're just simply saying that adding a rank higher than what was previously considered the top echelon of the challenge should only be done after someone proves that it's even possible to do so in the first place. You can't sit there and claim "wElL yA, bUt YoU cOuLd'Ve DoNe It UnDeR hArDeR cOnDiTiOnS" if no one has ever shown that its even remotely possible to do under those conditions.

My no charge kill was done under the absolute hardest conditions that anyone has ever solo'd the king under. There's only been 2 people that have solo'd the king prior. One used multiple "strong clicky" charges like puppet strings, slowstone amber, etc. The other used multiple characters for the kill (a druid for the pull, and then a chanter for the kill). Trying to claim that the person who did it self buffed using multiple characters is the same thing as someone doing it solo with one toon is whats disingenuous here.

If you want to create an S+ rank, then login and show us that its possible before you try to theorize your bullshit from the sidelines.

I think there's a misunderstanding here, it is a sick kill and grats on doing it.

But in a vacuum, there's a hierarchy of kills and unbuffed ranks higher. Those types of challenges exist to see how far you can push the class and solo, self buffed and no "strong clickies" is basically the highest step. If it can be done it can and if it can't it can't. The whole point is seeing what can and can't be done and finding the minimum threshold basically. If you've found it for monk on fungi king and it required buffs then so be it! You set the bar higher, you're the first to do it and possibly last.

The raid gear point is a theoretical argument about staying consistent with the rules. IIRC the solo artist challenge was during kunark era. So if today my 1400hp chanter gets an aego to 2500hp it is not considered "legal" according to the challenge but with velious power creep if I get BIS VP/TOV gear I'll probably be sitting around 2500hp self buffed. What's the difference? I'm just saying context is important. They might nerf lull to the point where you can't lull mobs above level 50 so a lot of chanters kills of yore will lose significance if that ever hits since some of the strategies will no longer be viable. That would make some newer kills more difficult thus rank higher and it will be up to chanters to see what can and can't be done under new ruleset.

P.S. I think splorf22 is lorean, and I think lorean got a clean solo chanter kill on king too.

[Stryker85]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think there's a misunderstanding here, it is a sick kill and grats on doing it.

But in a vacuum, there's a hierarchy of kills and unbuffed ranks higher. Those types of challenges exist to see how far you can push the class and solo, self buffed and no "strong clickies" is basically the highest step. If it can be done it can and if it can't it can't. The whole point is seeing what can and can't be done and finding the minimum threshold basically. If you've found it for monk on fungi king and it required buffs then so be it! You set the bar higher, you're the first to do it and possibly last.

The raid gear point is a theoretical argument about staying consistent with the rules. IIRC the solo artist challenge was during kunark era. So if today my 1400hp chanter gets an aego to 2500hp it is not considered "legal" according to the challenge but with velious power creep if I get BIS VP/TOV gear I'll probably be sitting around 2500hp self buffed. What's the difference? I'm just saying context is important. They might nerf lull to the point where you can't lull mobs above level 50 so a lot of chanters kills of yore will lose significance if that ever hits since some of the strategies will no longer be viable. That would make some newer kills more difficult thus rank higher.

P.S. I think splorf22 is lorean, and I think lorean got a clean solo chanter kill on king too.

I disagree whole-heartedly. I don't think anyone should be able to add ranks for a kill that never existed before and retroactively change the rules for clickies and buffs, unless they can prove that its possible under those standards first.

You are right though that Loraen is definitely Splorf22. I was thinking Loramin for some reason, I guess because he was involved in the thread earlier and was the person that locked the wiki with Zuranthium's changes. Sorry for the confusion.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree whole-heartedly. I don't think anyone should be able to add ranks for a kill that never existed before and retroactively change the rules for clickies and buffs, unless they can prove that its possible under those standards first.

You are right though that Loraen is definitely Splorf22. I was thinking Loramin for some reason, I guess because he was involved in the thread earlier and was the person that locked the wiki with Zuranthium's changes. Sorry for the confusion.

Why not? Loraen made this in 2012 when iksar hide boots were basically bis for monks. People forget how horribly bad melee gear was until velious. So it’s laughable that the condition should still exist that it’s ok to not buff casters but melee can be buffed while still competing against the same mobs.

This should absolutely be changed by someone who cares enough to do so and let the community decide on the relevant standards in 2025.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree whole-heartedly. I don't think anyone should be able to add ranks for a kill that never existed before and retroactively change the rules for clickies and buffs, unless they can prove that its possible under those standards first.

The rules aren't changing, Those ranks just exist wether you want it or not and wether those kills are possible or not. Just like solo monk buffed myconid king existed before you did it, it's just that no one did it before and some people probably deemed it impossible but you came and did it. As far as I'm concerned it isn't a lesser kill because it was buffed but if someone came self buffed and did it then yeah, that would be better. You seem to think it is impossible to do it unbuffed and if so then that's great, you found the lowest possible threshold it is possible to kill the myconid king which is pretty noteworthy in itself, that's basically the goal of the SAC, pushing the class to the edge.

I think some people prefere self buffed feats because it evens the playing field but I see it just like powerlifting. It's cool to see what a natural dude can do but it is also cool to see a juiced guy hit a 1000lbs deadlift. It's just done under different variables and it has to be acknowledged.

What's the biggest self buffed monk kill anyway?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys are basically fighting for how high the bar for soloing is. I think it boils down to needing separate solo categories.

Solo means with no outside help but you can't claim with a straight face you had no outside help if you're raid buffed for the attempt. You can't also claim getting haste/regen/maxhp/stats from buffs doesn't create a HUGE gap between that player and the one who does a "pure" solo (only self buffed) so putting both types of attempts on the same level is unfair.

But then you open the can of worms of if buffing is considered outside help, you could consider being raid geared to the gills outside help too so then it becomes a self found challenge by default. Raid gear guy unbuffed might have better stats than a non raid gear player with outside buffs so it all becomes hazy. Just giving aegolism to a caster nearly doubles their hp.

And then we could discuss puppet strings.

I think all kills are valid and impressive but it is disengenuous to try to default them to being all the same because they're absolutely not.

Yes, there were already categories (ranks) on the solo challenge page. Zuranthium is the only one trying to claim there are no solo categories other than no outside buffs and no comsumables. He keeps insisting everybody wants it this way too. He seems to think you aren't solo if you click one charge of a wort pot.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's already been provided, countless times. You refuse to listen.

It has not. If it has, please repost it. Like Samoht, your strategy is to lie that you posted evidence when you didn't over and over. You hope people just believe you. It doesn't work like that. People can read the thread.

[Duik]

^
Sounds good Gorg. All single kills are good.

I liked your unbuffed N raid geared vs outside buffs and EC/ droppable geared comparison.

Stryker, well done buddy. I dont care what "tier" it ends up being. Great job.

Everyone else. Just stop.

[Tewaz]

Don't talk to Zuranthium and he will disappear back to iceskating and Guild Wars 1

[Snaggles]

Personally, while those are romantic targets to kill it would be preferred to find ones for easier setup. There are countless NPC’s which always spawn the same level, with the same buffs, who you can port within a zone of and run up to (invis or not). This would include classes like Warriors who do not have the same ability to solo pull a rare spawn in a dungeon.

Nerd lab musing aside, that really isn’t the point here. Sscalez gear represents the upper echelon of what is available to this class at this point. Outside chisel updates we hasn’t seen a patch that affects gameplay in a long time. While I initially thought this was mostly a personal mission rather than aiming at the Solo challenge, it certainly seems valid to me. Throw a few notes next to it so it can be documented for the ages and hit “save”. Then let the few sadists document their effort to do it with less buffs/clickies etc.

I don’t know what is a more impressive feat, the kill or fending off posturing blowhards who peaked in Kunark and retired shortly thereafter.

[Zuranthium]

So to recap the list of inanities from DSM/Stryker:

*Using 2 players and several different classes to complete an encounter is the best solo achievement possible

*Monks need outside buffs to be on the same level as casters for a solo challenge - despite already being extremely advantaged over Wizards, Clerics, Mages, Druids - and when that's not the point of solo challenges to begin with

*Outside buffs aren't an assist since it's only 1 character attacking the MOB, despite the fact that buffs are the same thing, in effect, as another player adding that same amount of DPS/healing during the fight

*People should be able to use as many healing potions as they want even though Soulfire click is disallowed, and the highest tier of challenge should allow a single wort pot even though that's no different than getting buffed by an outside source, which has always been prohibted for casters

*Spending 5 years grinding for gear on p99 is a skill on the same level as spending 5 years becoming a top ranked Chess player

*Ignore the impact of using Avatar and other procs/swapping to maximize a character's capability

*The stated goal of this thread of doing the kill without consumables is worthless, since everyone should slavishly cling onto an outdated wiki page that said so

*Anyone who thinks the most pure form of soloing is without outside buffs (most of the community) must be jealous and only started feeling that way after this thread was posted. Everyone who discusses and values soloing without outside buffs is only doing so because they want to deny people from playing the game any other way, even when all of those people encouraged the OP to do the kill without consumables and wanted to bring visibility to their video

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So to recap the list of inanities from DSM/Stryker:

*Using 2 players and several different classes to complete an encounter is the best solo achievement possible

*Monks need outside buffs to be on the same level as casters for a solo challenge - despite already being extremely advantaged over Wizards, Clerics, Mages, Druids - and when that's not the point of solo challenges to begin with

*Outside buffs aren't an assist since it's only 1 character attacking the MOB, despite the fact that buffs are the same thing, in effect, as another player adding that same amount of DPS/healing during the fight

*People should be able to use as many healing potions as they want even though Soulfire click is disallowed, and the highest tier of challenge should allow a single wort pot even though that's no different than getting buffed by an outside source, which has always been prohibted for casters

*Spending 5 years grinding for gear on p99 is a skill on the same level as spending 5 years becoming a top ranked Chess player

*Ignore the impact of using Avatar and other procs/swapping to maximize a character's capability

*The stated goal of this thread of doing the kill without consumables is worthless, since everyone should slavishly cling onto an outdated wiki page that said so

*Anyone who thinks the most pure form of soloing is without outside buffs (most of the community) must be jealous and only started feeling that way after this thread was posted. Everyone who discusses and values soloing without outside buffs is only doing so because they want to deny people from playing the game any other way, even when all of those people encouraged the OP to do the kill without consumables and wanted to bring visibility to their video

This is why I keep saying you have reading comprehension issues. Or you are trolling. You do know that other people can actually go back and read the thread, right? Posting nonsense summaries over and over just makes you look like a troll or person who cannot read well.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Solo means no outside buffs and no consumables. That's the ENTIRE discussion that's been taking placing in this thread from the start, and was explicitly stated yet again in the post you quoted. Jesus christ.

The reality of the situation is you believe that the only thing that counts as solo is no outside buffs or consumables. You have been trying to force this idea on everybody else, and at the expense of OP by trying to demerit OP's accomplishment.

Many people disagree with your idea. But you stubbornly refuse to accept this, to the point where you modified the solo artist challenge page to try and win the argument. That doesn't work, and the wiki will be fixed.