AC softcap and low level hardcap discussion

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I care >:-(

But only about rangers though.

Tunare blessed you with snare, root, and sow. It’s as if the gods said, “Don’t stop moving or you will die.”

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I care >:-(

But only about rangers though.

I was once a crusader for the argument that a ranger is the optimal casual 6 person group tank, bringing snap agro like a knight, snaring and/or snapping charm breaks, dps kinda like a monk, and then tanking the slowed mobs.

Oh how I wanted to see people change their minds about my favorite class

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was once a crusader for the argument that a ranger is the optimal casual 6 person group tank, bringing snap agro like a knight, snaring and/or snapping charm breaks, dps kinda like a monk, and then tanking the slowed mobs.

Oh how I wanted to see people change their minds about my favorite class

They are tank with lowest avoidance which means you get more ‘free’ damage through damage shields, further boosting group dps and efficiency.

[bcbrown]

Do you understand what we're talking about when we talk about a mob's squelch point? It was developed in that AC ranger parsing thread Sogundordor started earlier this year.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you understand what we're talking about when we talk about a mob's squelch point? It was developed in that AC ranger parsing thread Sugundor started earlier this year.

I understand the context of the "squelch point" you are referring to.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the AC tests in that thread were done with higher level characters. The hardcap formula I am referring to only applies to "low levels", so the "squelch point" wouldn't be directly relevant.

Haynar's formula probably no longer applies to the characters doing the tests in that thread. Unless you were testing with characters under 40, Haynars formula would need 265+ worn AC to even begin testing. Did that thread have any tests with 40+ characters wearing 300+ worn AC?

EDIT: To be clear, I don't mean level 60 tests when I say 40+, as max level wouldn't be low level. We don't know what the "low level" range is. Gregorgasmic suggested levels 1-50 at one point, but I don't think it was confirmed.

[bcbrown]

The point is that the AC squelch point is a mob characteristic. Every mob will have a different squelch point, and adding AC over that point will not have an impact. This is independent of any player-specific AC cap mechanism.

You need to find a mob with a squelch point that is higher than the Haynar cap formula for the toon you're using.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point is that the AC squelch point is a mob characteristic. Every mob will have a different squelch point, and adding AC over that point will not have an impact. This is independent of any player-specific AC cap mechanism.

You need to find a mob with a squelch point that is higher than the Haynar cap formula for the toon you're using.

What would be the purpose of Haynar's formula if the "squelch point" was under 55 AC? If they both did the same thing, Haynar's formula would just be redundant.

Also, why do you think this mob's squelch point is under 55 AC?

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What would be the purpose of Haynar's formula if the "squelch point" was under 55 AC? If they both did the same thing, Haynar's formula would just be redundant.

Also, why do you think this mob's squelch point is under 55 AC?

Yes, I agree it is mostly redundant. It would mostly apply to fighting red mobs I suspect, if in fact Haynar's formula is in effect.

The squelch point for a level 45 mob was 200 AC. Haynar's formula implies a cap of 199 at level 29, so it would only come into play for a player under 29 fighting a level 45 mob. Almost completely irrelevant.

I don't know what that mob's squelch point, but the data is consistent with a squelch point under 55 AC. In order to rule out that possibility you would first need to find the mob's squelch point. To find evidence supporting or disproving the existence of Haynar's formula you need to fight a mob where the mob's squelch point is higher than the Haynar cap.

This is what I meant by the midpoint. Find the worn AC value for a mob such that there's an equal number of min-hits and max-hits. Get a toon with a Haynar cap of about that value. Wear AC that hits the squelch point. If the results show almost no max-hits, the Haynar cap is not in effect. If the results show an equal number of max-hits, the Haynar cap is a hardcap. If the results are somewhere in between, the Haynar cap is a softcap.

Does that makes sense?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, I agree it is mostly redundant. It would mostly apply to fighting red mobs I suspect, if in fact Haynar's formula is in effect.

The squelch point for a level 45 mob was 200 AC. Haynar's formula implies a cap of 199 at level 29, so it would only come into play for a player under 29 fighting a level 45 mob. Almost completely irrelevant.

I don't know what that mob's squelch point, but the data is consistent with a squelch point under 55 AC. In order to rule out that possibility you would first need to find the mob's squelch point. To find evidence supporting or disproving the existence of Haynar's formula you need to fight a mob where the mob's squelch point is higher than the Haynar cap.

This is what I meant by the midpoint. Find the worn AC value for a mob such that there's an equal number of min-hits and max-hits. Get a toon with a Haynar cap of about that value. Wear AC that hits the squelch point. If the results show almost no max-hits, the Haynar cap is not in effect. If the results show an equal number of max-hits, the Haynar cap is a hardcap. If the results are somewhere in between, the Haynar cap is a softcap.

Does that makes sense?

The main problem I have with this theory is Haynar specifically added this formula to solve a problem. Based on his post it didn't sound like the problem was a niche issue like low levels fighting reds. It was more about how effective AC was as you equip more.

But I can do a few more test to confirm there isn't a "squelch point" before 55 AC. What AC do you want me to test?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What would be the purpose of Haynar's formula if the "squelch point" was under 55 AC? If they both did the same thing, Haynar's formula would just be redundant.

Also, why do you think this mob's squelch point is under 55 AC?

it's a level 5 mob, surely it is tuned for a dude wearing a bunch of cloth and patchwork armor?