ive been playing monsters and memories for 2 nights now

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Ekco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unpolished EQ clone is basically being kind, MnM people are giving Star Citizen community a run for their money in the cult dept. was the same energy with Pantheon people back when people still could claim that was vaporware with a straight face

that harbor starting zone is the biggest cluster fuck in the history of video games

real talk.

Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me...You can't get fooled again.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Bones [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unpolished EQ clone is an absolutely absurd remark. MnM is definitely more polished than classic era EQ, and its not particularly close.

UI, dwarf barrel roll, cat rooms, cracked staff paydirt, etc. Uninspiring copy/paste.

For the many classes available, somehow it still feels lacking. Yes, early development can and will leave that impression but still.

Using paladins as an example...

Paladins do have shield toss and slam, so that gives more reason to equip a shield this time around but still limited because you can't toss, say, a tower shield. A charge ability would have better suited the shieldbearing class, adding burst mobility and more damage/style points to the attack, with potential for stun, knockback/down, etc. without limiting the shield type. Lay on Hands could have healed based on the paladin's HP pool, cured disease/poison/debuffs, and applied a rune effect for any overhealing, so the ability wouldn't necessarily be wasted on lower level unbuffed players. Instead, it just heals for X amount of HP, a large number but nothing that can be altered, nothing that encourages the player to feel motivated to test builds and get creative with their gear.

Apparently, paladins also get undead snare in addition to undead fear which will let them solo the way rangers do here, except versus a mob type that will probably be less common. They also get a brief frontal cone mez, but only the one spell early on, its reliability questionable later? Mark of the Crusader is just Mark of Karn. Deflect is just a watered down Sanctification as a spell rather than disc. Divine Aegis is temp invulnerability again but this time it prevents all other magical effects of its kind from being applied for 1min, so no DA idol, Dain's orders, etc. Supplication is just Yaulp without attack, AC, or stamina return. The entire line only increases STR. Overall, disappointing and not different enough from the EQ version to consider leveling. Vanguard, for example, granted the class any one of three auras to benefit their party and an offensive/defensive target, enabling rescue. Those features right there already offer more than what was listed above.

But there are so many other games to lift ideas from, not even other MMOs but action RPGs, that would make gameplay more engaging and fun to watch.

Originally Posted by Bones [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its got something going for it that p99 or any classic EQ private server never will. Completely brand new game, new world, new content, but plays very similarly in style

FWIW multiple EQ veteran players in various discord channels have commented saying that the novelty wore off within the first couple of hours and that the "sandwich gameplay" got boring fast, which is saying something coming from players willing to sock p99 windows. This is the supposed demographic and many of them aren't sold on it. A few are, but the niche won't have enough of a cult to fill its world if it's only appealing to a fraction of this aging playerbase.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

UI, dwarf barrel roll, cat rooms, cracked staff paydirt, etc. Uninspiring copy/paste.

Also, their version of Kelethin is a 1:1 at first glance. Really? Why not have all the trees burnt, dead, or dying, overtaken by silkworms? With the city being rebuilt amid that pervasive threat/stubborn blemish. Then it still could have been a familiar setting but not too samey. And then there would be widespread environmental storytelling that players couldn't ignore.

There are a lot of these missed opportunities that shouldn't need to be pointed out.

Like, I just had biryani for the first time recently and as someone who eats rice dishes regularly, it was a pleasant surprise that took some getting used to. Same base ingredient. Rice. And yet wildly different, practically in its own category. Cooks understand this, why can't devs?

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, their version of Kelethin is a 1:1 at first glance. Really? Why not have all the trees burnt, dead, or dying, overtaken by silkworms? With the city being rebuilt amid that pervasive threat/stubborn blemish. Then it still could have been a familiar setting but not too samey. And then there would be widespread environmental storytelling that players couldn't ignore.

There are a lot of these missed opportunities that shouldn't need to be pointed out.

Like, I just had biryani for the first time recently and as someone who eats rice dishes regularly, it was a pleasant surprise that took some getting used to. Same base ingredient. Rice. And yet wildly different, practically in its own category. Cooks understand this, why can't devs?

I'm not sure if you're being serious right now? I spent probably 8 hours exploring the new elf zone because it's that huge and just when you think you've seen it all, you come across something entirely new. The city itself is so massive I can't even think of a city in Norrath to compare it to because none of them close in size. There are areas of the city that have been over-run by spiders, so the guards cut the bridges to stop the spread and high levels can venture into this area to grind exp. There are so many more lifts and each one of them lead to an area of the zone that is unique and completely different. In GFAY you have basically one orc camp that can sustain a single group.

In Evershade Weald there are enough unique and interesting camps to sustain hundreds of players. Some of the lifts lead you to the newby zone, other's lead you to very high level areas of the game, others lead you to a mountainous / cave area, as you actually explore the zone there's all kinds of fallen logs with Mushroom men, lots of areas with orc camps, crypts with undead, I mean it's just this massive place compared to Gfay, you could literally walk around for 6 hours and not even see half of the content in said zone, not to mention it's attached to a zone that is very similar to West Karana.

That's one of the problems with P99 even to this day, if you don't get a group in Unrest, there are no other zones to level in, whereas on Antonica you can always grind in Oasis, Karana, Beholder's Maze, Lavastorm etc. On P99 .. on Faydwer you basically get in the one group for your level range in Unrest or you don't really level your character passed level 12.

Also Evershade Weald has lakes and rivers, you can actually fish and what not. I remember always being confused as a kid when I would look at the map and see bodies of water in Faydwer, yet there were none in game. The docks in Felwithe never made sense to me... be cause where did they go to?

Also the elven city isn't even finished. As you get to the top of the elven city there's another elevator that takes you even higher to an unfinished area. You are so high up at this point it's actually scary, it feels like being on top of the world's tallest building etc.

I really don't understand how anyone could even confuse this place with a exact copy of Kelethin. The newby lift alone is several hundred feet in the air, there's no falling from the top and surviving even if you are max level.

Also it's cool how the forest is much darker than the Night Harbor area. Explains the Infravision I guess.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

UI, dwarf barrel roll, cat rooms, cracked staff paydirt, etc. Uninspiring copy/paste.

For the many classes available, somehow it still feels lacking. Yes, early development can and will leave that impression but still.

Using paladins as an example...

Paladins do have shield toss and slam, so that gives more reason to equip a shield this time around but still limited because you can't toss, say, a tower shield. A charge ability would have better suited the shieldbearing class, adding burst mobility and more damage/style points to the attack, with potential for stun, knockback/down, etc. without limiting the shield type. Lay on Hands could have healed based on the paladin's HP pool, cured disease/poison/debuffs, and applied a rune effect for any overhealing, so the ability wouldn't necessarily be wasted on lower level unbuffed players. Instead, it just heals for X amount of HP, a large number but nothing that can be altered, nothing that encourages the player to feel motivated to test builds and get creative with their gear.

Apparently, paladins also get undead snare in addition to undead fear which will let them solo the way rangers do here, except versus a mob type that will probably be less common. They also get a brief frontal cone mez, but only the one spell early on, its reliability questionable later? Mark of the Crusader is just Mark of Karn. Deflect is just a watered down Sanctification as a spell rather than disc. Divine Aegis is temp invulnerability again but this time it prevents all other magical effects of its kind from being applied for 1min, so no DA idol, Dain's orders, etc. Supplication is just Yaulp without attack, AC, or stamina return. The entire line only increases STR. Overall, disappointing and not different enough from the EQ version to consider leveling. Vanguard, for example, granted the class any one of three auras to benefit their party and an offensive/defensive target, enabling rescue. Those features right there already offer more than what was listed above.

But there are so many other games to lift ideas from, not even other MMOs but action RPGs, that would make gameplay more engaging and fun to watch.




FWIW multiple EQ veteran players in various discord channels have commented saying that the novelty wore off within the first couple of hours and that the "sandwich gameplay" got boring fast, which is saying something coming from players willing to sock p99 windows. This is the supposed demographic and many of them aren't sold on it. A few are, but the niche won't have enough of a cult to fill its world if it's only appealing to a fraction of this aging playerbase.

This is legitimate feedback, hopefully you post it somewhere that devs can read it. I don't play a Paladin but I'm not crazy about them pigeon holing the class into being the shield class since I envision them as the class that wielded the Fiery Avenger. But I guess they may reason that it's okay because the shield doesn't actually have to be equipped in order to use (some?) of the shield abilities.

The only thing I disagree with with this sentiment (since the rest is legitimate feedback) is that they need to make this game more like an action RPG. Which again, I may be misinterpreting what you meant by that, if so, I apologize. I actually play a lot of Retail WoW, even actively played it prior to MnM launched (canceled sub afterwards). It's not that I don't appreciate action RPGs, it's just that like.... IDK, there's something super chill and relaxing about MnM that I really enjoy. Sitting on a beach in Sanded Dunes drinking coffee, listening to some good music, just casually grinding some EXP out. You don't really get that type of vibe from WoW where you're constantly mashing buttons as fast as you can and can't even glance at your character or your environment because you're too busy staring at the cooldowns on your abilities the entire time. Zero down time and no incentive to just chill out in the world somewhere, sharing a campfire with complete strangers, trading buffs and heals, chit chatting about the world and the game.

You just don't get this from an action RPG. I think it's fine to have the genres separate. I think there's enough space for both.

[Nickelback8469]

Originally Posted by Wakanda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing I disagree with with this sentiment (since the rest is legitimate feedback) is that they need to make this game more like an action RPG. Which again, I may be misinterpreting what you meant by that, if so, I apologize. I actually play a lot of Retail WoW, even actively played it prior to MnM launched (canceled sub afterwards). It's not that I don't appreciate action RPGs, it's just that like.... IDK, there's something super chill and relaxing about MnM that I really enjoy. Sitting on a beach in Sanded Dunes drinking coffee, listening to some good music, just casually grinding some EXP out. You don't really get that type of vibe from WoW where you're constantly mashing buttons as fast as you can and can't even glance at your character or your environment because you're too busy staring at the cooldowns on your abilities the entire time. Zero down time and no incentive to just chill out in the world somewhere, sharing a campfire with complete strangers, trading buffs and heals, chit chatting about the world and the game.

You just don't get this from an action RPG. I think it's fine to have the genres separate. I think there's enough space for both.

I also agree with this. I don't want another "action packed" MMO with dozens of abilities or spells to juggle on several hotbars, I like the strategic aspect of slowing the combat down and limiting the player to 10 or so carefully chosen abilities. It's one of my biggest appeals towards Classic EQ and games like M&M

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Wakanda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is legitimate feedback, hopefully you post it somewhere that devs can read it. I don't play a Paladin but I'm not crazy about them pigeon holing the class into being the shield class since I envision them as the class that wielded the Fiery Avenger. But I guess they may reason that it's okay because the shield doesn't actually have to be equipped in order to use (some?) of the shield abilities.

The only thing I disagree with with this sentiment (since the rest is legitimate feedback) is that they need to make this game more like an action RPG. Which again, I may be misinterpreting what you meant by that, if so, I apologize. I actually play a lot of Retail WoW, even actively played it prior to MnM launched (canceled sub afterwards). It's not that I don't appreciate action RPGs, it's just that like.... IDK, there's something super chill and relaxing about MnM that I really enjoy. Sitting on a beach in Sanded Dunes drinking coffee, listening to some good music, just casually grinding some EXP out. You don't really get that type of vibe from WoW where you're constantly mashing buttons as fast as you can and can't even glance at your character or your environment because you're too busy staring at the cooldowns on your abilities the entire time. Zero down time and no incentive to just chill out in the world somewhere, sharing a campfire with complete strangers, trading buffs and heals, chit chatting about the world and the game.

You just don't get this from an action RPG. I think it's fine to have the genres separate. I think there's enough space for both.

Visuals is more what I meant, but wouldn't excluded tactics which don't have to require button mashing, pecking at keys repeatedly. If a wizard begins to channel a meteor spell, it's way more interesting to see that as a charge up, where maybe they levitate higher and higher and then drop to the ground at the moment of impact. And, while levitating, they would avoid AEs that sweep the ground of the lair. But for another encounter, the same strategy could leave them exposed. Simple and doesn't have to be fast-paced. Just something that makes the player think and maybe put their sandwich down.

Borrow ideas from other games and genres without confirming to the same features.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Visuals is more what I meant, but wouldn't excluded tactics which don't have to require button mashing, pecking at keys repeatedly. If a wizard begins to channel a meteor spell, it's way more interesting to see that as a charge up, where maybe they levitate higher and higher and then drop to the ground at the moment of impact. And, while levitating, they would avoid AEs that sweep the ground of the lair. But for another encounter, the same strategy could leave them exposed. Simple and doesn't have to be fast-paced. Just something that makes the player think and maybe put their sandwich down.

A good example of this would be FFXI which took inspiration from EQ IIRC, but the attack moves are more stylish and distinct from ninja to dancer, NPCs and so on. EQ only has a few attack moves that are showy, namely flying kick, tail rake, mermaids spin exteavagantly and froglok's backflip, otherwise attacks are mostly restricted to ordinary swings and kicks. Giants don't stomp AE stun attack. Centaurs don't buck or kick with their fore/hind legs. That said, the death animations are well done, despite their limitations. Beholders rolling back, exposing the whites of their eyes. Harpies face plant with their wings still upright for a lingering moment. Little touches like those make the fights satisfying.