My proposal for Raiding guilds and GMs of P1999

[Olorin]

Originally Posted by jilena [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not gonna scroll back through all 29 pages to find the quotes but I believe someone even said something as dumb as "What's the difference between having 1 tracker afk camping the zone and 15 non-trackers?!". I mean seriously.

I'll do it for you then, cuz thats how i roll ....

Originally Posted by Ayen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IB has this ridiculous fascination with mobilization. They have it in there head that this some how implies skill when you can "mobilize" to a mob. But the sad reality is and what people don't understand its the same thing as camping a mob out.


Ayen "Dark Ascension"

[Supreme]

Just keep things the way they are...there will never be a solution everyone agrees to as long as there is no final authority to enforce it.

[Nizzarr]

Lets not lie to ourselves here now. having trackers is one thing, second thing is camping out your mains where they need to be camped when you receive the call. Thats what IB and DA does and its almost the samething as having them afk camping.

Inny is due? you can bet your ass that the whole guild will be all camped at the same wizard spire just waiting for a port up.

Now tell me how is that much different than actually camping the zone? It's the same for all other raid mobs.

I also cannot see how you will stop camping with these current rules. I believe an agreement between IB and DA would probably put a stop to it.

Let's not fool ourselves here IB, what we've been doing the past 3 weeks is a non-declared rotation. It's just putting a hurt on both guild's members.. in the name of greed and "competition".

[jilena]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lets not lie to ourselves here now. having trackers is one thing, second thing is camping out your mains where they need to be camped when you receive the call. Thats what IB and DA does and its almost the samething as having them afk camping.

Inny is due? you can bet your ass that the whole guild will be all camped at the same wizard spire just waiting for a port up.

Now tell me how is that much different than actually camping the zone? It's the same for all other raid mobs.

I also cannot see how you will stop camping with these current rules. I believe an agreement between IB and DA would probably put a stop to it.

Let's not fool ourselves here IB, what we've been doing the past 3 weeks is a non-declared rotation. It's just putting a hurt on both guild's members.. in the name of greed and "competition".

The difference as I explained in my post is, with a tracker and mobilization you have one person who is stuck sitting there the whole time. Everyone else can go play the game as they please, and just log out some place nice to get to the mob quickly. You still get to play your character, farm loot for alts, hang out with friends, and actually enjoy the game. Even if you are still a loser in the eyes of most for waking up at 3am to answer the batphone, at least it doesn't prevent you from playing the game when you are logged in. (unless you are the unlucky sucker who has to track).

This is VASTLY different from having 15-20 people's characters chained to a zone 24/7 waiting for a pop. I don't see how you can possibly think it's even remotely similar for anyone aside from the poor tracker.

[G13]

Originally Posted by jilena [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is VASTLY different from having 15-20 people's characters chained to a zone 24/7 waiting for a pop. I don't see how you can possibly think it's even remotely similar for anyone aside from the poor tracker.

People need to understand we all play this game with different motives. Some people like to farm. Some people like to craft. Twink. Raid, ect. There are many different reasons people play this game. DA and IB have been playing a much deeper strategic game than anyone else on the server for a long time now.

For some, the politics and guild vs guild strategy IS the game. Not farming. Not twinking. The raiding aspect of it is an afterthought. The mobs are just pieces in a much larger game. I don't begrudge anyone for taking the most efficient route to kill mobs. You people are acting like mobilization takes some type of skill or something. It doesn't. Yes, Everquest is cool and everything, but people need to realize it's a very flawed game. "racing" to any raid mob is a leapfrog quest, except for maybe in Fear. DA didn't write the raid rules. FB was not there when these rules were created. DA and IB are simply playing by the current rules in the most efficient way. I understand some people vehemently disagree with that and resent it, and they are entitled to their opinion.

People are trying to separate a method, like its somehow more noble to camp in WC and get ported into a zone than it is to camp out or sit afk waiting for the mob. People are trying to paint how you should play Everquest in box based upon how they think it should be played. That isn't truth though. Your guild wants to camp in WC and port in? Fuck it, we'll just be there before you. Why camp in WC when we can just camp in the zone? It's a waste of time. The most obviously efficient way is to cut out the time it woul take to gather in WC and port when we can already be here, in force, actively clearing since we only have 30 min to clear trash and engage. But wait, someone says I have to port in to be elite at killing classic EQ content or something, so it must be true.

The more efficient method, even without the 15 person rule is sit at the spawn. Clear trash for gear in rotations if need be. Have a druid or ranger tracking. You see thats what people don't seem to understand. AFK camping in the zone is the same thing, because simply "porting" in doesn't somehow automatically qualify you as "being better than someone else". You still get roll called if another guild has a force in the zone and have literally one minute to have 15 say present. Nobody is stopping anyone on the server from doing this. You still need mobs to kill in the way in a specific time limit, buff, engage and kill the boss as well. Feel free to put pressure on them, roll call them, call timers, ect. We all know where this leads though. We've been dealing with it for a long time. Being in the zone when the mob pops doesn't automatically mean you get ported the mob and get to engage. Yu still need to clear, buff, kill in a specific time. That requires mobilization and coordination since you're getting roll called and timer called.

The current raid rules do foster a competitive environment though. It's just a more strategic game, rather than "ready, set, charge" mass zerging by both guilds towards a raid mob, leapfrogging every man for himself, "oops I accidently fegned a mob on them" followed by guild leader saying "Fuck it. Keep going". You know this shit i going to happen. I should know, I played on FFA servers before. There is nothing "noble" about it. People fuck each other over all the time. None of you fuckers are innocent in any guild on this server. Yea people like to pretend though. You get caught up in the hunt rushing towards a mob. Yea it can be fun, but it's a shitfest of people seeing what thy can get away with that nobody notices and there are a multitude o ways to fuck over a rival guild fighting mobs with you to a spawn.

Vox - one way there. A specific way to pull ect. multiple guilds leapfrogging over each other to try and get first aggro would be total chaos. Trains would be common.

Naggy - same thing. Training and leapfrogging through FGs. With the way aggro works here with FD i can see what would happen already. Monk is pulling through the guild ahead of him and "oops" FD too early and guild A gets aggro. Or the mob would aggro on the ival guild first because of the way FD aggro behaves. Monk would say claim "accident" as guild B gets slowed down by a mob they didnt even pull.. With the outright hostility between DA and IB going on right now it would be a total shitfest.

Hate - Basically the same thing except one raid mob on each floor, though they are never up at the same time so it's one straight path basically to both. With how easy it is to accidently cause a train up there because of fucked up bugged mob pathing, it would be a clusterfuck.

Fear - the only real FFA raid zone except one guild can just wait until the other pulls the last mobs and then aggro/kill CT. FFA right? Just let the other guild clear all the mobs. It would become a game of chicken or a shitfest where both guilds would zerg CT at the same time hacking and slashing, last few mobs be damned. They aggro rival guild? Good for us. Hope they wipe and we get CT. So who determines who legitimately hit the boss first? The Gms? They gonna check logs on every boss kill now to determine that?

IB and DA have been in a stand off for months. This shit has been happening since the early FB days. Trans decided a long time ago they were only willing to take it so far. They bowed out. I don't blame or begrudge them for that either. It was their decision. DA has honestly been the only guild to not only play IB's game, but raise the stakes. Each guild strategically has been trying to outdo each other for a long time now. Now the server jumped the shark a long time ago. We are now at the point where people need to think about the overall health of end game on this server and if we need to come to some type o compromise. There are major egos in the way on both sides that have been unwilling to compromise for a long time.

None of the encounters except for Cazic Thule take a lot of work to actually get to in order to engage. Thats why there is a current 30 minute rule to engage. I used to watch IB port up to hate when my guild was clearing trash. They roll right by you with maybe 8 people, create a faction war decimating the mobs you're farming, charm a planar mob and then harmony pull/kill maestro. In and out wthut even saying anythng to anyone. Everyone has their agenda here. You guys can either continued on the forced camp rotation or sit down, set aside th agendas and try to find a way where everyone can enjoy the game.

[rioisk]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For some, the politics and guild vs guild strategy IS the game. Not farming. Not twinking. The raiding aspect of it is an afterthought. The mobs are just pieces in a much larger game. I don't begrudge anyone for taking the most efficient route to kill mobs. You people are acting like mobilization takes some type of skill or something. It doesn't. Yes, Everquest is cool and everything, but people need to realize it's a very flawed game. "racing" to any raid mob is a leapfrog quest, except for maybe in Fear. DA didn't write the raid rules. FB was not there when these rules were created. DA and IB are simply playing by the current rules in the most efficient way. I understand some people vehemently disagree with that and resent it, and they are entitled to their opinion.

Let's face it, the politics is the game here. The raid mechanics in this game were not tuned for the amount of people trying to complete it. You are right, mobilizing isn't hard. With the rules the way they are it's a big game of politics.

[astarothel]

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[girth]

Just wanted to show everybody what I posted on page 1 again:

If you want your mob every time its up and no competition - go play World of Warcraft.

I for one am tired of people who play 1/10th the time thinking they should have the same claim in the high-end as those who actually play hardcore.

Every single MMO in existence is the same: you get back what you put in. If you cannot put in as much as the next guy, don't expect to get what he got.

FFA with 15 minute timer is the best thing I have seen so far in this thread. Rotations are just stupid.

[girth]

There are major egos in the way on both sides that have been unwilling to compromise for a long time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the IB leader in here trying to compromise something else other than this camping crap.

The problem seems to be half of DA want change like the rest of the server, and half of them know its their only shot.

[kai4785]

I want to toss my two cents in, as a very casual player. Casual to the point that I don't have the time to read the entire 30 page thread that only started yesterday. I'd rather just sit down and play.

I've spent a good amount of time wondering how to maintain a "Classic" feel, as I slowly level up. I certainly loose quite a bit of that feel when I walk into Unrest and see 3 Power leveling groups mopping up the entire zone. I loose some of that classic feel when I group with a player who's under level 20, and has a full set of pre-plane gear that is obviously out of the reach of that player. What I really want to get out of playing EQ is something as close as possible to what we got when we played back in '99. I think that the Admins, Developers, and GMs all do a wonderful job doing their part, and for the vast majority of the time I'm online, I enjoy myself very much.

I do fear the end-game content, however. I don't have an answer that doesn't require some very very heavy handed GMs, which probably isn't any good either. And I probably won't be level 50 before Kunark is released (just like back in live, oh the good ol' days.)

While I'm sure this thread is loaded with players who put more than 5-10 hours a week into this game, please keep in mind those of us who don't. We're people too, and a "Peson's a Person, no matter how" much they play EQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The OP suggested we split the server, and I would be more than happy to run a "copy" of the official Project1999 server. If they are willing to open source their work and database, I would open a clone that weekend. Unfortunately I would be a terrible GM, and would probably set the level cap to 1 level higher than my current character's level, just to be mean, so it would probably be me all by my self for quite a long time, if not indefinitely. (It's taken me 6 weeks to hit level 19, wee!)

Anyway, I hope the outcome of this open forum is a positive one.