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  #1  
Old 02-14-2013, 09:18 PM
Slave Slave is offline
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Things that would fix raiding on P99:

-Remove Variance
This would remove the unnatural advantages that the larger guilds have over smaller ones to Track raid targets. Additionally, it would bring the server MUCH closer to a Classic ruleset.

-Add FTE Shout
This would remove the necessity of the GMs to find these records and assuage lots of disagreement between players that would otherwise occur. It would provide a valuable tool to raid leaders and guilds to more strategically engage targets, such as in the case if a small, weakish guild obtains FTE.

-Apply Play Nice Policy to Veeshan's Peak
This would cause the top guilds to race for the most valuable targets as they spawn, instead of being able to use their entire raid force to block other guilds from ever entering the zone, through denial of Trak Teeth, epic drops, and important upgrades. It would be a more Classic implementation of the zone and rules, it would be fair, and most importantly, it would open up the raid scene completely.

-Add simulated patch days
This would cause raid mobs to spawn at the same time, and add more targets for guilds to engage over the course of the server. It would create the very situation that almost everyone claims to love: the race for targets. It would be completely Classic in nature, and it would have massive synergy with the other methods as described above.
  #2  
Old 02-14-2013, 11:41 PM
Autotune Autotune is offline
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Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Things that would fix raiding on P99:

-Remove Variance
This would remove the unnatural advantages that the larger guilds have over smaller ones to Track raid targets. Additionally, it would bring the server MUCH closer to a Classic ruleset.

-Add FTE Shout
This would remove the necessity of the GMs to find these records and assuage lots of disagreement between players that would otherwise occur. It would provide a valuable tool to raid leaders and guilds to more strategically engage targets, such as in the case if a small, weakish guild obtains FTE.

-Apply Play Nice Policy to Veeshan's Peak
This would cause the top guilds to race for the most valuable targets as they spawn, instead of being able to use their entire raid force to block other guilds from ever entering the zone, through denial of Trak Teeth, epic drops, and important upgrades. It would be a more Classic implementation of the zone and rules, it would be fair, and most importantly, it would open up the raid scene completely.

-Add simulated patch days
This would cause raid mobs to spawn at the same time, and add more targets for guilds to engage over the course of the server. It would create the very situation that almost everyone claims to love: the race for targets. It would be completely Classic in nature, and it would have massive synergy with the other methods as described above.
adding pnp to vp wouldn't open it up on repops.

FE and TMO would agree to hold off on it until last. If you think FE is going to cut it's throat in VP so the other guilds can scoop up targets... you're dead wrong.

Why would they spend all the time it takes in vp with another guild breathing down their neck and get minimal loot (1 mob is really only worth it compared to other targets outside) when they could just agree to wait and increase their guilds take.

you guys are clueless.
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  #3  
Old 02-15-2013, 12:14 AM
Slave Slave is offline
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Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
adding pnp to vp wouldn't open it up on repops.

FE and TMO would agree to hold off on it until last. If you think FE is going to cut it's throat in VP so the other guilds can scoop up targets... you're dead wrong.

Why would they spend all the time it takes in vp with another guild breathing down their neck and get minimal loot (1 mob is really only worth it compared to other targets outside) when they could just agree to wait and increase their guilds take.

you guys are clueless.
So you're saying that if PNP was enforced, and the first guild to engage a target in VP was able to kill that target without getting trained, that the guilds would not go for the most valuable loot in the game? You're either insane or spinning.
  #4  
Old 02-15-2013, 12:35 AM
Autotune Autotune is offline
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Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So you're saying that if PNP was enforced, and the first guild to engage a target in VP was able to kill that target without getting trained, that the guilds would not go for the most valuable loot in the game? You're either insane or spinning.
I'm telling you, going into VP when all other targets are up is a dumb thing to do and both guilds will recognize it just like TMO and IB did (when we were rotating we agreed to leave them up and get them after, even with no fear of trains)

There is one target that is worth the trouble of going into VP to get and that is PD.

There are two pathing dragons that make VP a pita to go in and get her.

2 guilds pulling dragons and trying to get by each other without killing the other guild's members is going to take hours and is better left after you collect the easier (nearly as good or better) loot from the non-vp mobs.

You're just delusional and/or ill-informed.
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  #5  
Old 02-15-2013, 01:07 AM
Slave Slave is offline
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Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'm telling you, going into VP when all other targets are up is a dumb thing to do and both guilds will recognize it just like TMO and IB did (when we were rotating we agreed to leave them up and get them after, even with no fear of trains)

There is one target that is worth the trouble of going into VP to get and that is PD.

There are two pathing dragons that make VP a pita to go in and get her.

2 guilds pulling dragons and trying to get by each other without killing the other guild's members is going to take hours and is better left after you collect the easier (nearly as good or better) loot from the non-vp mobs.

You're just delusional and/or ill-informed.
LOL @ FE making a deal with TMO. From your desperate and illogical defense, we can plainly see TMO is terrified of the possibility of PNP being applied to VP.
  #6  
Old 02-15-2013, 08:12 AM
Autotune Autotune is offline
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Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
LOL @ FE making a deal with TMO. From your desperate and illogical defense, we can plainly see TMO is terrified of the possibility of PNP being applied to VP.
It's illogical to you because you're dumb. You think adding PnP to VP will allow your guild to get targets it currently doesn't, but it won't. This is causing you to have a mental breakdown and you can't comprehend the information, which is how we ended up with your above post.

FE will do what it has to, to survive as a guild and grow. They won't sacrifice loot that can go to their members for you, they aren't all that stupid.
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  #7  
Old 02-15-2013, 07:24 AM
Slave Slave is offline
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Originally Posted by Krissdu64 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So you want every target to be a poosock. A larger guild would still have the advantage, more people to get FTE. Are you stupid?
Really?

REALLY?!

I would like to think that you're just trolling, but in case you're completely mathematically and mentally deficient, I will do this VERY SLOWLY.

100 people at Trakanon:

30 TMO
30 BDA
20 FE
20 Others

Probability of FTE:

30% TMO
30% BDA
20% FE
20% Others

In a Track/Race scenario, which is probably about 80% of all raid targets, TMO will win 90% of the time, because they are enormous, fully geared so they can leapfrog or pull through other raids with impunity, and have many motivated Trackers (because they stand to get the mob 90% of the time). This is not Classic. There were no races to the mobs, because mobs weren't on Variance. They had an exact timer. So here we have a snowball effect where the largest guilds gain a hugely disproportional amount of the raid targets because of Variance.

I am so fucking disappointed in you Kriss.
  #8  
Old 02-15-2013, 08:13 AM
Autotune Autotune is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Really?

REALLY?!

I would like to think that you're just trolling, but in case you're completely mathematically and mentally deficient, I will do this VERY SLOWLY.

100 people at Trakanon:

30 TMO
30 BDA
20 FE
20 Others

Probability of FTE:

30% TMO
30% BDA
20% FE
20% Others

In a Track/Race scenario, which is probably about 80% of all raid targets, TMO will win 90% of the time, because they are enormous, fully geared so they can leapfrog or pull through other raids with impunity, and have many motivated Trackers (because they stand to get the mob 90% of the time). This is not Classic. There were no races to the mobs, because mobs weren't on Variance. They had an exact timer. So here we have a snowball effect where the largest guilds gain a hugely disproportional amount of the raid targets because of Variance.

I am so fucking disappointed in you Kriss.
This is the worst fucking math I've ever seen and it's no wonder you have no clue how the things you want will actually turn out.
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  #9  
Old 02-15-2013, 07:13 PM
Slave Slave is offline
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Originally Posted by Krissdu64 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So you're saying that TMO have equal numbers with BDA, and BDA + FE are more than TMO. Let me remind you the point of your post :

"This would remove the unnatural advantages that the larger guilds have over smaller ones to Track raid targets. Additionally, it would bring the server MUCH closer to a Classic ruleset."

At least you were right at one point : TMO does win because they're good at what they do, and not because of their numbers. This advantage will always exist, this is obvious... EQ can't limit the amount of players per targets, removing variance won't change this fact.
What about this do you not get? Do you really think those numbers were taken from an actual Trakanon poopsock? This is what is known as an example. When one group has 30% of the total amount of players at the poopsock, they mathematically have a 30% chance to obtain FTE. It's hard to explain it any simpler than this.

When players are forced to Track to get targets, due to Variance, which is a wholly manufactured mechanic exclusive to P99, the biggest guild with the most gear gets the targets 90% of the time. If you paid attention in school, you will see that is a whole lot more than exactly equal chances per population at a poopsock. A poopsock which usually goes on for hours thanks to Variance, completely WASTING everyone's time. Removing Variance with patch days would turn poopsocking into racing for raid targets, as everyone and their grandmother purport to enjoy.

We do not want Variance removed to screw over TMO; we want Variance removed so that endgame will be fair for all raiders at all times. That was the way it worked in Classic Everquest and it's the way it should be here.
Last edited by Slave; 02-15-2013 at 07:16 PM..
  #10  
Old 02-16-2013, 07:02 AM
Kagatob Kagatob is offline
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Originally Posted by Krissdu64 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
sorry... I fail
At least you are honest. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seriously though, simulated patches (full server mob repop) and set spawn timers would solve many many more problems than they would create.

Still need to find a solution to this FTE bullshit though, I hope someone realizes that Dain/Tormax/Yelinak are going to be impossible to hand items to on Velious.
Last edited by Kagatob; 02-16-2013 at 07:07 AM..
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