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  #1  
Old 03-26-2013, 07:50 PM
Aaryonar Aaryonar is offline
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Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
well said sir. are variances perfect? absolutely not, and i think the staff has admitted this by making changes to the variance and how it works. and we'll continue to make tweaks as the staff feels is needed to ensure a successful and competitive future for the server.
Any thoughts on my specific suggestion? Anyone I've discussed it with has been unable to find a single flaw in the logic. If there is no set time, or even a set window, then no guild has a best chance and every guild has an equal chance - like even moreso than a repop day. Why is this not a consideration on the chopping block?

Also, if there are changes to the variance in the future, can you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE not let us know any specifics? The most recent change to variance would have literally blown this raid-scene up bigtime if the exact equation for it wasn't detailed in the announcement post. I don't want to know when a dragon might spawn. It would be a nicer surprise.
Last edited by Aaryonar; 03-26-2013 at 07:54 PM..
  #2  
Old 03-26-2013, 08:02 PM
Emphase Emphase is offline
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Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Any thoughts on my specific suggestion? Anyone I've discussed it with has been unable to find a single flaw in the logic. If there is no set time, or even a set window, then no guild has a best chance and every guild has an equal chance - like even moreso than a repop day. Why is this not a consideration on the chopping block?.
I like your idea a lot, it did remind me of live actually. I've ran through DL a few times and almost ran right into Gorenaire in the process. I agree with 100% variance. maybe some day it will get a shot and we will see it on this server
  #3  
Old 03-26-2013, 08:26 PM
kenzar kenzar is offline
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Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
If there is no set time, or even a set window, then no guild has a best chance and every guild has an equal chance
An equal chance does not necessarily equate to equality.

-100% removal of variance
-strictly enforced rotating target schedule for any guild wanting on the list
-24 hours allotted to down your guilds target. Failure to do so is a forfeit, and the boss becomes FTE.
-Breaking rotation results in raid suspensions. Habitually breaking the rotation, results in a guild disbanding.
-Raid interference (training/starting DT cycles/what have you) is a raid suspension. Habitually breaking this rule results in a guild disbanding.
-No guild is allowed to aid another during the initial 24 hour 'uncontested' period. Breaking this rule will result in a raid suspension of the offending guild. Habitually breaking this rule will result in a guild disband.
-Create a functioning 'Raiding' forum where all participating guilds are required to list the date/times of their respective kills, as well as the projected date/times of their respawns.

This is the only way I see everyone having a true equal chance. No one has to sacrifice days of their life sitting in front of a tracking mule mashing a button. No one has to wake up at 4AM on a work-day to have a chance at a boss. The guilds will know they targets for the week ahead of time, and their spawn times. The playing field is absolutely level. Everyone gets their piece of the action, with the chance of getting extra.

Now some might point out that without some sort of qualifier there will be 20 guilds on the rotation in no time, and to start out, you are right. But over time, some guilds will realize it is in their best interest to merge with other guilds to have the numbers/whatever to down the more difficult bosses. Over time, the number of guilds on the rotation will mitigate themselves down to a handful and each guild will be getting multiple targets a week. With the release of Velious that number of targets will more than double.

This is nothing that hasn't been suggested and shot down before on the basis of some's personal feelings about 'competition.' That 'some' are a tiny minority of the server, that are available for the better part of every day to log on at the drop of a hat. The minority of players that applies to are being catered to by the variance, while the vast majority of players it does not apply to are left in the cold when it comes to their classic everquest experience. Rotations work. If Rallos Zek( and many others ) can have have a functioning rotation, that finds the majority of raiders on the server happy, than p99 can do the same.
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Last edited by kenzar; 03-26-2013 at 08:28 PM..
  #4  
Old 03-26-2013, 08:36 PM
Aaryonar Aaryonar is offline
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Originally Posted by kenzar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
An equal chance does not necessarily equate to equality
Why does anybody on this server deserve more than a chance?

Equal Chance = Level Playing Field
Equality = A myth, and not classic
  #5  
Old 03-26-2013, 08:43 PM
kenzar kenzar is offline
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Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Why does anybody on this server deserve more than a chance?
That is all my suggested methods provide. An equal chance (24hrs) on targets in a rotation. Have you spent weeks of your life mashing track for a chance at a mob? I have, its not fun, its not classic. It burns people out, makes them resent people in their own guild and the game. 0 variance is the only thing that makes sense because it puts everyone on a level playing field from the start, everything past that is what they wish to put into it.
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Last edited by kenzar; 03-26-2013 at 08:49 PM..
  #6  
Old 03-26-2013, 09:14 PM
Aaryonar Aaryonar is offline
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Originally Posted by kenzar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
That is all my suggested methods provide. An equal chance (24hrs) on targets in a rotation. Have you spent weeks of your life mashing track for a chance at a mob? I have, its not fun, its not classic. It burns people out, makes them resent people in their own guild and the game. 0 variance is the only thing that makes sense because it puts everyone on a level playing field from the start, everything past that is what they wish to put into it.
Tracking sucks and I hate it too, but it really doesn't mean anything if you can't mobilize your force to the target in time.

You can't park your raid at every target and you can't convince your guild to track absolutely everything all the time. You simply cannot do that.

Tracking would certainly be a nice luxury, but unless you're tracking 100% of the mobs 100% of the time, you're going to be losing some. ESPECIALLY if you're camping your raid force at one or two in particular.

I don't want to turn this server into Guild A pressing free-loot button then passing to Guild B and everyone playing nice. That's WoW and it's not fun. That's what a rotation would be here since every person knows exactly what's needed to down every mob. You might have the odd wipe 1/50 times, but for the most part whoever is on schedule for that day gets the boss and that isn't competition, it's "Equality" at the cost of uncertainty, and uncertainty is what's fun!

I re-iterate. Everyone deserves an equal chance, but if everyone is "equal" - by your hardline definition of absolute equality in gear and content for every player all the time - then what's the point of playing and getting better at the game?

Right? Right.

Full Variance is the only choice that allows for meaningful competition between players while not necessarily favoring the tactics currently employed by raid guilds on this server to cockblock everyone else.
Last edited by Aaryonar; 03-26-2013 at 09:21 PM..
  #7  
Old 03-26-2013, 09:19 PM
kenzar kenzar is offline
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Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Tracking sucks and I hate it too, but it really doesn't mean anything if you can't mobilize your force to the target in time.

You can't park your raid at every target and you can't convince your guild to track absolutely everything all the time. You simply cannot do that.

Tracking would certainly be a nice luxury, but unless you're tracking 100% of the mobs 100% of the time, you're going to be losing some. ESPECIALLY if you're camping your raid force at one or two in particular.

I don't want to turn this server into Guild A pressing free-loot button then passing to Guild B and everyone playing nice. That's WoW and it's not fun. That's what a rotation would be here since every person knows exactly what's needed to down every mob. You might have the odd wipe 1/50 times, but for the most part whoever is on schedule for that day gets the boss and that isn't competition, it's "Equality" at the cost of uncertainty, and uncertainty is what's fun!

I re-iterate. Everyone deserves an equal chance, but if everyone is "equal" - by your hardline definition of absolute equality in gear and content for every player all the time - then what's the point of playing and getting better at the game?

Right? Right.
You dont think certain "lower teir" guilds are gonna wipe to mobs like Gorenaire?Trak? Even IB wiped to those mobs w/o competition rushing an engage. They are a genuine challenge for guilds that havent farmed VP for the last few months.

Whats the point of getting better at the game? watching your guild who had trouble on certain bosses progress, get geared, and in time overcome those fights.

What you define as fun is not what everyone would define as fun. Again I will cite the relatively low numbers of 60's that participate in current raiding compared to the # of available lvl 60's. The majority of people do not find the current end game rule set fun. I would argue that your idea of what is fun, is the minority, and I'm sorry but my suggestion would not cater to you...the minority.
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  #8  
Old 03-26-2013, 09:21 PM
Stormhowl Stormhowl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I re-iterate. Everyone deserves an equal chance, but if everyone is "equal" - by your hardline definition of absolute equality in gear and content for every player all the time - then what's the point of playing and getting better at the game?

Right? Right.
Not everyone's goal is to get shinies. Every player should be treated equally; but not every player will have the same goals.

Simply put, every player should have the opportunity at the same things, but only if they actually want them and are willing to work towards it. And the drama involved with going after bosses is not a test of skill or effort; it's a test in coping with bull excrement.
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  #9  
Old 03-26-2013, 09:22 PM
kenzar kenzar is offline
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Originally Posted by Stormhowl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Not everyone's goal is to get shinies. Every player should be treated equally; but not every player will have the same goals.

Simply put, every player should have the opportunity at the same things, but only if they actually want them and are willing to work towards it. And the drama involved with going after bosses is not a test of skill or effort; it's a test in coping with bull excrement.
Well put.
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