Hybrid XP penalties

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Beaniron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They're hybrids. Rangers are also hybrids, yet they get dual wield, double attack, and kick. Bards also had quad attack in EQ:OA for the PS2. Pallies and SK's are hybrids yet they get Double Attack and Bash. So why does the Bard get the shaft in melee being a Hybrid?

bards get significant cc ability. You want the balls with that shaft?

[Vondra]

Originally Posted by lecompte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mmm... I have a guild that disagrees on the racial penalties front. Would someone with some credentials care to respond? And my understanding of it is that I have the same amount of exp it just gets slashed before it is applied to my bar... that is why a 60 war and a 60 rang lose the same % when they die.

It's unfortunate that they disagree. What I posted is exactly how it works.

http://wiki.project1999.org/Game_Mec...ence_Penalties

You can scroll down to "how experience works" for another person giving the same perspective regarding exp shared in a group.

Regarding the length of your personal exp bar, you can see the formula at the top of what was linked which is accurate. Total XP to complete a level = L^3 * C * R * H (which is defined in greater detail in the game mechanics post)

Nothing is ever cut from your bar. When you kill something alone, you get the same exp someone else your level would get killing that mob alone. Your exp bar is just longer.


If you are willing to put in a little time searching through older posts via search function, you'll find this topic has come up periodically over time, with experienced players coming to the same conclusions.

[lecompte]

Originally Posted by Vondra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If it was a troll SK, then we'd be looking at the same deal. The troll part would still be "shared", since it contributed to them having a longer exp bar. In the troll SK case, the freshly dinged lev 50 troll sk has 168% of the exp onhand that the freshly dinged 50 human cleric does. Calculation changes accordingly, concept remains the same.

You added substantially to your post after I replied so I'm going to address this part here.

I think the racial part of the penalty plays in to the XP bar (the troll warrior has 20% (http://wiki.project1999.org/Game_Mec...ence_Penalties) more exp in his bar than the human warrior, and thus it isn't shared with group) while the xp BONUS is shared with group, because that is applied to the xp before it is distributed to the group/player. Likewise, the troll sks personal penalty will be perceived as follows: If there is a total of 70% exp penalty in the group, (SK, Monk, Chanter) then the xp from each mob will be slashed by 70 percent before it is applied to each party member, then the racial experience bonus/penalty will be applied.

[lecompte]

Okay Vondra, I think we are in for agree to disagree time now. I'm pretty sure my analogy is flawed in some way, and I know yours is so we should let it lie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].


EDIT:
Pleas note that my guild leaders say racial penalties aren't shared so to have any other stance is certain death and I will stand by it to end!

[Vondra]

Originally Posted by lecompte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You added substantially to your post after I replied so I'm going to address this part here.

I think the racial part of the penalty plays in to the XP bar (the troll warrior has 20% (http://wiki.project1999.org/Game_Mec...ence_Penalties) more exp in his bar than the human warrior, and thus it isn't shared with group) while the xp BONUS is shared with group, because that is applied to the xp before it is distributed to the group/player. Likewise, the troll sks personal penalty will be perceived as follows: If there is a total of 70% exp penalty in the group, (SK, Monk, Chanter) then the xp from each mob will be slashed by 70 percent before it is applied to each party member, then the racial experience bonus/penalty will be applied.

The troll warrior having 20% more exp in his bar affects the group since having 20% more exp means he will take a larger portion of the groups exp because of it, since the total exp onhand is all that is consulted.

The exp calculation doesn't take into account any of the penalties. You're making the mistake of adding up 40, 20, and 10 from sk monk chanter, the exp calculation when handing out exp never takes those things into consideration. It doesn't make any calculation regarding a 70% total penalty, or any penalty at all.

It just looks at the total exp onhand of each character and hands out exp in accordance with it.


It sees the sk with 140000 exp, the human monk with 120000 exp, and the chanter with 110000 exp.

140000 + 120000 + 110000 = 370000

It gives the SK 140000/370000 = ~.378 or 37.8% of the exp.

The monk gets 120000/370000 = ~.324 or 32.4% of the exp.

Then the chanter gets the rest.

If the human monk was instead say...an iksar shaman (which has a 20% racial penalty, but no class penalty) the result would be the same as a human monk. They'd have 20% more exp on hand than the human cleric of same level. Same calculation, 120000 exp total for them, same 32.4% of the exp for them in this group if they replaced the human monk.

[xCry0x]

Originally Posted by lecompte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2) I wear plate.

If you want to break it down based on how the armor visually looks then yea it looks like plate just like rogue & shaman armor looks like plate.

When you look at it from an armor standpoint there is a break down where:

Warrior bp: 35 ac
SK/Pal BP: 30 ac
Cleric BP : 28 ac
Rogue, Shaman, Ranger: 26 ac

Originally Posted by Vondra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All the exp penalties are shared, both class and racial, because the penalty is inherent to the total onhand exp the player has.

I am interested in the exp penalty breakdown though because what you are saying is that a racial/class penalty is the same sort of penalty you get from grouping with a higher level player.

I was under the impression the details were more complex than just saying, hey this guy has more total exp so he is higher level/has a penalty whatever therefor the other people get less.

[lecompte]

Originally Posted by xCry0x [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you look at it from an armor standpoint there is a break down where:

Warrior bp: 35 ac
SK/Pal BP: 30 ac
Cleric BP : 28 ac
Rogue, Shaman, Ranger: 26 ac

35 AC on tolan's BP I think.

[xCry0x]

Originally Posted by Vondra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

140000 + 120000 + 110000 = 370000

It gives the SK 140000/370000 = ~.378 or 37.8% of the exp.

The monk gets 120000/370000 = ~.324 or 32.4% of the exp.

Then the chanter gets the rest.

Ah that makes a ton of sense. Didn't understand that your exp cut was essentially derived from your perceived level based on total exp.

Remind me never to group with a Troll SK that is also higher level than me =P

[Vondra]

Originally Posted by xCry0x [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want to break it down based on how the armor visually looks then yea it looks like plate just like rogue & shaman armor looks like plate.

When you look at it from an armor standpoint there is a break down where:

Warrior bp: 35 ac
SK/Pal BP: 30 ac
Cleric BP : 28 ac
Rogue, Shaman, Ranger: 26 ac



I am interested in the exp penalty breakdown though because what you are saying is that a racial/class penalty is the same sort of penalty you get from grouping with a higher level player.

I was under the impression the details were more complex than just saying, hey this guy has more total exp so he is higher level/has a penalty whatever therefor the other people get less.

That's correct, the penalty is the same.

Only total exp is consulted. Grouping with a level 50 iksar monk (44% penalty) is roughly the same as grouping with a lev 53 human cleric (0% exp penalty), at least as far as who gets how much of the groups exp is concerned.

The fresh dinged lev 50 monk would have 175 mill (base if no penalty) * 1.2 (iksar) * 1.2 (monk) = 252 million exp

The freshly dinged lev 53 human cleric would have roughly 253 million exp. (253m is the base exp for lev 53 without penalties)

[xCry0x]

Originally Posted by lecompte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

35 AC on tolan's BP I think.

Was talking planar not kunark.

Kunark is
45 for war
40 for pal/sk/cleric
35 shaman/rogue/ranger