Mage pet nerf 100% bot now....

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nerf Enchanter

I personally was charming quite a bit on enchanter in vanilla EQ, not sure where this idea that no enchanters were charming came from

I know my level 30-something vanilla EQ enchanter certainly didn't have the 235 buffed CHA that my P99 enchanter had at level 30. I bet a lot of classic EQ enchanters either didn't realize the benefits of cha to charming, or else for whatever reason valued int more. Also, when I was playing classic EQ, it was definitely NOT common knowledge to trade your charmed pets -MR items to lower chances of breaks, or to hand them torches to make them dual wield

I feel like a lot of the "power" of certain tactics is due to people having 20+ years to develop said tactics. This happened a lot in classic WoW too. Everyone found ways to min/max everything, and strategies were used that were almost unheard of in vanilla WoW (the most obvious being the world buff meta, where everyone in the raid gets every possible word buff then logged out until the raid, because these buffs gave your char basically +40%+ performance)

But yeah, nerf chanters out of spite for mages. I'll just roll the server's 923752387 necro. Necros are probably 5x as common as enchanters on Green. There's even more mages in the mid-level zones that I frequent than enchanters, something I didn't expect

[loramin]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But yeah, nerf chanters out of spite for mages. I'll just roll the server's 923752387 necro. Necros are probably 5x as common as enchanters on Green. There's even more mages in the mid-level zones that I frequent than enchanters, something I didn't expect

It's not about "nerfing chanters out of spite"; it's about being true to classic. Either we're going to be true to classic here, and that includes making mages suck as much as they actually did on live from '99-'01 (which I'm 100% for because, again, look in the upper-left corner) ... or we're not.

But no one can look me in the eye and say that we're really all about classic here ... when charming clearly isn't, and hasn't been for more than a decade. It's way too easy for Enchanters, but it's also far too easy for Druids ... even Druids with zero charisma gear and zero negative magic resist gear.

If charm was this easy in classic, everyone would have been doing it ... but the simple truth of the matter (as anyone with even half-remembered, clouded-by-pot-smoke memories of live already knows) is that charming was a niche thing on live in '99-'01. And it wasn't just because all those live players (an order of magnitude more than we have) were all idiots.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not about "nerfing chanters out of spite"; it's about being true to classic. Either we're going to be true to classic here, and that includes making mages suck as much as they actually did on live from '99-'01 (which I'm 100% for because, again, look in the upper-left corner) ... or we're not.

But no one can look me in the eye and say that we're really all about classic here ... when charming clearly isn't, and hasn't been for more than a decade. It's way too easy for Enchanters, but it's also far too easy for Druids ... even Druids with zero charisma gear and zero negative magic resist gear.

If charm was this easy in classic, everyone would have been doing it ... but the simple truth of the matter (as anyone with even half-remembered, clouded-by-pot-smoke memories of live already knows) is that charming was a niche thing on live in '99-'01. And it wasn't just because all those live players (an order of magnitude more than we have) were all idiots.

I have not seen any empirical evidence proof that charming is somehow "easier" on P99 than it was in vanilla. And this must include comparing rates of breaks with people of equal charisma, because I believe that enchanters on P99 are sporting, on average, much higher charisma rates in the low-mid levels than enchanters in vanilla were. Saying it "feels" easier or that it "appears" easier isn't going to cut it

Also, charisma does not impact rates of charm breaks for druids or necros on p99 nor did it in vanilla (but I could be wrong about the in vanilla part, I didn't play a druid or necro in vanilla EQ, just chanter and shaman). If charisma actually DID impact rates of charm breaks for druids, then druids who chose to wear high cha would actually be MORE capable charmers

[loramin]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have not seen any empirical evidence proof that charming is somehow "easier" on P99 than it was in vanilla. And this must include comparing rates of breaks with people of equal charisma, because I believe that enchanters on P99 are sporting, on average, much higher charisma rates in the low-mid levels than enchanters in vanilla were. Saying it "feels" easier or that it "appears" easier isn't going to cut it

Also, charisma does not impact rates of charm breaks for druids or necros on p99 nor did it in vanilla (but I could be wrong about the in vanilla part, I didn't play a druid or necro in vanilla EQ, just chanter and shaman). If charisma actually DID impact rates of charm breaks for druids, then druids who chose to wear high cha would actually be MORE capable charmers

You're ignoring my core point. For Druids, charm is their best leveling path here ... even though everyone who played on live can agree that wasn't the case.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's like you completely ignored what I wrote about Druids, and how even when they're not wearing any Charisma gear at all, charm is still their best leveling path here ... even though everyone who played on live can agree that wasn't the case.

Not wearing any charisma is irrelevant when the stat does absolutely nothing for them, nor did it in vanilla. They're not wearing any dex gear either, and leveling quite well. They must be broken!

edit: also quadding is probably faster exp than charming

[Bardp1999]

There are also so many Green necros because of Kunark droping and its a great alt

[rewinder47]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not about "nerfing chanters out of spite"; it's about being true to classic. Either we're going to be true to classic here, and that includes making mages suck as much as they actually did on live from '99-'01 (which I'm 100% for because, again, look in the upper-left corner) ... or we're not.

But no one can look me in the eye and say that we're really all about classic here ... when charming clearly isn't, and hasn't been for more than a decade. It's way too easy for Enchanters, but it's also far too easy for Druids ... even Druids with zero charisma gear and zero negative magic resist gear.

If charm was this easy in classic, everyone would have been doing it ... but the simple truth of the matter (as anyone with even half-remembered, clouded-by-pot-smoke memories of live already knows) is that charming was a niche thing on live in '99-'01. And it wasn't just because all those live players (an order of magnitude more than we have) were all idiots.

I don't remember charming being as prevalent back then, but I also don't remember everyone having the same BiS gear, and I especially don't remember everyone using GCD reset items. Charm breaks can be a pain in the ass without GCD reset, and though I wasn't a super hardcore player, I don't think I ever even heard of a GCD reset back then. We also didn't have Youtube tutorials on charming to let everyone know exactly what to do.

Time and knowledge makes a big difference. Look at what mages are doing in WoW classic as another example. Just crazy shit that no one was doing back in the day. It wasn't impossible, it just wasn't known about.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by rewinder47 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't remember charming being as prevalent back then, but I also don't remember everyone having the same BiS gear, and I especially don't remember everyone using GCD reset items. Charm breaks can be a pain in the ass without GCD reset, and though I wasn't a super hardcore player, I don't think I ever even heard of a GCD reset back then. We also didn't have Youtube tutorials on charming to let everyone know exactly what to do.

Time and knowledge makes a big difference. Look at what mages are doing in WoW classic as another example. Just crazy shit that no one was doing back in the day. It wasn't impossible, it just wasn't known about.

Yes, we have (unclassic) GCD resets here ... but no, it does not logically follow that because the (again, 10x or more) players on live didn't know about GCD resets, that was the reason they weren't charming.

Occam's razor applies here: it's far more likely that the charm mechanics here are more forgiving than live ... than it is that everyone live was an idiot, or that the only thing stopping them from charming was the lack of the goblin earring.

[Gustoo]

Druid charm you can do in rags just fine.

Was not a high level on live vanilla so I don't know how well it worked back then.

[Delekhan]

People most certainly used GCD items back then. I get the impression a lot of people here were children back in those days and didn't actually play end game in Era eq.