Mob run speed?

[Xaanka]

Originally Posted by integrable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ts#Pre-GeForce

Honestly I could be off on the price but the first 128 card didn't come out until '99. And they were like 150 Hz cards. Theres no way a card like that could render that many moving models without insane frame rate droppage.

And ya lag spikes still occured on a T1.

Lag spikes definitely happened, and bards definitely died a lot, but you could make up for the experience very quickly if you knew about the overthere bind points back then.

Article from 2000 to show you how wrong you are http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/graphics2 video card technology moves fast my man

Sorry but if the dev's didn't intend for swarming they would have set bard's aoe to 4-target like other existing spells in the game. They were left low damage and able to hit unlimited targets for a reason. Just try to argue a purpose for the Horn, Denon's, the aoe snare, etc if swarming weren't intended.

[Swish]

Can't outrun mobs with strafing anymore...they gon getcha.

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[integrable]

I never saw a bard swarm kite more two or three dozen mobs in classic. We don't know the devs intended for entire zones to be swarmed because it just didnt happen for them to see and react to it. I don't care about locking it to 4 mobs I just think there is a large discrepancy between bard swarm kiting in p99 and classic swarming.

[Xaanka]

Originally Posted by integrable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never saw a bard swarm kite more two or three dozen mobs in classic. We don't know the devs intended for entire zones to be swarmed because it just didnt happen for them to see and react to it. I don't care about locking it to 4 mobs I just think there is a large discrepancy between bard swarm kiting in p99 and classic swarming.

4 mobs is a tad rediculous (bards do significantly less damage per tick than druids and wizards, which can already solo 4) but I could also agree with setting a static cap of something like 10, 20, 30 targets on bard aoe damage abilities. That's more how most people swarmed on classic, a couple dozen mobs at once. Whole zone clears definitely did happen in classic but they were uncommon. Would be a fair second alternative to a policy change while keeping a minimal impact to the balance of the game.

Whole zone clears did become common around the time velious released because low end hardware could handle it and players became aware of its existence. You could swarm a zone on a $150 video card in 2001, and more like a $250-600 card in 1999-2000. Already backed this statement up with proof above.

I have nothing to back this up, but the SoE dev I knew before EQ released essentially described swarm kiting as a selling point to get me to play EQ around the time beta rolled out, so I know it's an intended mechanic. It's just a matter of digging up an old archived forum post or something, because yeah I have no proof. I seem to recall developers mention swarming several times on the forums back in the day, wouldn't be too hard to prove they were aware of it.

That and, as I've mentioned twice already, they buffed swarm kiting in Kunark. Got any explanation for that one?

[Tann]

On live, and anyone who actually played a bard then can attest, "swarm" kiting involved a handful of mobs and charm. Had nothing to do with aoe dots, just saying. Not calling BS on the above, more like wat???

Any of the classic police here will back this up

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On live, and anyone who actually played a bard then can attest, "swarm" kiting involved a handful of mobs and charm. Had nothing to do with aoe dots, just saying. Not calling BS on the above, more like wat???

Any of the classic police here will back this up

depending on the server you played on different names were used. there are two types of bard kiting: "Swarm" and "AE". Names don't matter exactly, but one refers to the charm kiting (using social aggro to get a "swarm" of mobs to attack your pet then breaking your pets health at 1% and finishing it off yourself for full exp) and the other involves gathering a number of mobs together and using your AE spells to swoop around them in circles singing snares and AE dots, killing them all very slowly together.

[Tann]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

depending on the server you played on different names were used.

Yea back on the nameless we called mobs fibblenibs, raids shakakadueces, and bards were actually called cliffburtons

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Names don't matter exactly,.

Jokes aside, names do matter. Use the way back machine and find anything on swarm kiting, you'll see charm as the method.

That's what I was originally getting at, talking about something "classic" and using a term people in classic used for something else.

[Xaanka]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea back on the nameless we called mobs fibblenibs, raids shakakadueces, and bards were actually called cliffburtons



Jokes aside, names do matter. Use the way back machine and find anything on swarm kiting, you'll see charm as the method.

That's what I was originally getting at, talking about something "classic" and using a term people in classic used for something else.

Everquest was huge, all of the servers were very different. Ever been on a server where Kelethin was the trade hub? Qeynos? Exactly. MMO terminology wasn't really A Thing back then, every server probably had its own name for the strategy. Remember, back then your average player didn't know what LFG meant until someone explained it to them.

On Ayonae Ro and Xegony, AOE swarm kiting as we know it certainly did exist in classic area. Ruins of Kunark added a song to the game explicitly for the use of swarm kiting, so it's safe to say Sony was well aware of the strategy by the time Kunark was being developed.

Charm kiting was also A Thing, and nobody on any server I played on called it charm kiting back then.

So basically, semantics is the reason why searching 201* terms in the way back machine isn't giving you results. Kind of like how searching "Tesla Model S" won't give you any results about cars. I don't even think there was a term for it back then. I always personally just heard it referred to as AoEing or bard AoE. Most people didn't know about it, people who were aware didn't really advertise the strategy a whole lot in my experiences.

Your sarcastic reply to the guy saying "hey we all used different terms back then" pretty much shows you either didn't play back then, never got past level 25, or you have poor memory... EQ was the first mainstream-popular MMORPG -- it created many of the terms we use today, outside of the ones which came from regular RPG's they simply didn't exist.

Got any explanation for why the bard aoe's tick so low and hit unlimited targets when there were other aoe's in the game coded to hit a capped number? Got any explanation for why Horns are in the game when the entire line of items essentially only affects swarm kiting? How about Largo's Absonant Binding's addition at the beginning of the leveling path in Kunark? Your argument is falling apart.

Back then powerleveling hardly existed, and early levels were harder to get. Nobody knew the game and everybody died more while exping slower. Bards were very weak until level 18 and highly penalized on exp, while bringing nothing to a group until later levels. The OT didn't exist, and even when it was added it took years for most players to pick up on how good of a spot it was for bards. I personally remember OT being a pretty well kept secret amongst bards in the know. Getting a bard to the point where it could even begin to swarm was hard enough, back then it wasn't an instant level 50 bard like it is today. Swarming is a perfect example of peoples' knowledge of the game trivializing things which used to be very challenging.

Face it, you just don't like swarm kiting and you don't care about what was in the game back then or not. There's nothing wrong with that, just say it instead of arguing it wasn't in the game. As much as I disagreed with Haynar earlier, I can respect why he wants to nerf swarming because he said it: he just doesn't like it.

ok too many words.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea back on the nameless we called mobs fibblenibs, raids shakakadueces, and bards were actually called cliffburtons



Jokes aside, names do matter. Use the way back machine and find anything on swarm kiting, you'll see charm as the method.

That's what I was originally getting at, talking about something "classic" and using a term people in classic used for something else.

jokes aside, you missed the point. on some live servers i played on the names were mixed up...and certainly non-bards used the terms interchangeably.

the point is that names don't matter. the problem is either the charm kiting method or the AE circle method. you can call them whatever you want, but the issue has nothing to do with name so long as we all know which one we are talking about.

[Kixx]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can't outrun mobs with strafing anymore...they gon getcha.

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fucking love it swish!