Official Green Server Thread - October 2019

[Evia]

Originally Posted by Ketchi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I may have missed this, but will Green mean that Blue is shutting down? I would hate to start playing now just to have to start over again in a few months

No blue wont shut down because of green.

[Ketchi]

Thank you

[Khaleesi]

Ten years(plus pre release development and conceptual time) of a project in the making, casually informed that it's releasing in several months via an unprofessionally titled thread by Rogean that contains a teaser graphic and no actual details?
Where is the official release thread that the advertisement on the Project 1999 home page should be pointing to?

The thread would contains answer to such things as :


What is the actual plan, purpose and vision of the server?
Will there be any mechanics changes? Including a server wipe - if so, what exactly?
Different restrictions/less restrictions?
Expecting to follow the timeline to the exact dates?
Lessons learned from Blue?

Testing?
Velious(an expansion) had plenty of months of testing and yet Green(an entire server) is announced quite suddenly with no mention of whether it's being tested, was tested.
Is it still needing testing, how do people sign up?
Assuming we have roughly two thousand people elbowing each other to get in simultaneously, you'd want to make sure things work first. Which leads onto ..

Will there be early access or a staggered rollout?
If yes to the above, what dates, times and how is it deployed - whom gets in first?

Are there character creation limits to slow down the name reserving, Alt creation and general character spam that affects login servers and newbie areas?
One character creation per hour would solve the above

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

.....The launch of blue was incredible, and honestly the people that were playing were (for the most part) awesome people. Everyone was pretty good at letting people experience things and get loot.

You're about to witness an event more wanton than Walmart at 6am on the day after Christmas in Baltimore.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...in the frenzy that will be Green?

Oh "frenzy" is putting it mildly.

[Khaleesi]

Originally Posted by Khaleesi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ten years(plus pre release development and conceptual time) of a project in the making, casually informed that it's releasing in several months via an unprofessionally titled thread by Rogean that contains a teaser graphic and no actual details?
Where is the official release thread that the advertisement on the Project 1999 home page should be pointing to?

The thread would contains answer to such things as :


What is the actual plan, purpose and vision of the server?
Will there be any mechanics changes? Including a server wipe - if so, what exactly?
Different restrictions/less restrictions?
Expecting to follow the timeline to the exact dates?
Lessons learned from Blue?

Testing?
Velious(an expansion) had plenty of months of testing and yet Green(an entire server) is announced quite suddenly with no mention of whether it's being tested, was tested.
Is it still needing testing, how do people sign up?
Assuming we have roughly two thousand people elbowing each other to get in simultaneously, you'd want to make sure things work first. Which leads onto ..

Will there be early access or a staggered rollout?
If yes to the above, what dates, times and how is it deployed - whom gets in first?

Are there character creation limits to slow down the name reserving, Alt creation and general character spam that affects login servers and newbie areas?
One character creation per hour would solve the above






You're about to witness an event more wanton than Walmart at 6am on the day after Christmas in Baltimore.



Oh "frenzy" is putting it mildly.

Let's quote myself and add :


What in the world is happening with Raid rules?
Complete FFA
Rotation
PVP enabled in certain zones
FTE

--

Will people still not be allowed to be in zone with a contested mob past an invisible line?
How many trackers allowed? When, where?

And most importantly above all else.. is someone going to finally give Wedar his due and actually make sure the Hole zone is done properly this time?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Khaleesi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Testing?
Velious(an expansion) had plenty of months of testing and yet Green(an entire server) is announced quite suddenly with no mention of whether it's being tested, was tested.
Is it still needing testing, how do people sign up?
Assuming we have roughly two thousand people elbowing each other to get in simultaneously, you'd want to make sure things work first. Which leads onto ..

Green has been tested, heavily, for about a decade: it's called Blue (aka the "Beta Green" server) ... or at least its content has.

The "hoops" that Rogean has to jump through to release a new server have also been tested (eg. in addition to Blue and Red he brought up a whole separate Velious test server before Velious was released), so really I doubt there's much need for testing on any level.

Basically, for ten years everything the P99 team has been doing has pretty much been just building towards Green.

[Khaleesi]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Green has been tested, or at least its content has.

Content only aside, it's been tested on Blue, not Green.
If you're suggesting they'll merely copy across the server, they can't because it's not pre Kunark.
And if you then think they can fire up only a pre Kunark era version of Blue, wrong again because it's mechanics are different.

It's not like they can simply 'turn off' the expansions and call it a day.

What are the odds they just happen to have a Classic era build waiting in the wings that's all fixed and ready to roll that they said nothing about until five months before it's meant to launch?
And outside of content, there's far more to it than that.

Anyways, that's the one of the lesser concerns. The other aspects are glaring and not addressed, especially about Rygarr.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Khaleesi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Content only aside, it's been tested on Blue, not Green.
If you're suggesting they'll merely copy across the server, they can't because it's not pre Kunark.
And if you then think they can fire up only a pre Kunark era version of Blue, wrong again because it's mechanics are different.

It's not like they can simply 'turn off' the expansions and call it a day.

What are the odds they just happen to have a Classic era build waiting in the wings that's all fixed and ready to roll that they said nothing about until five months before it's meant to launch?
And outside of content, there's far more to it than that.

Others have mostly answered this, but just the one thing you're maybe missing is that Blue doesn't need to "fire up only a pre Kunark era version", because it already had that version.

Although it was before your (and also my) time, the server originally started with vanilla, and the staff slowly added content on top (as Llandris mentioned, doing so carefully, in a way that could easily be "played forward" later). The reason Kunark took seven years here is that the staff was still fixing issues in Vanilla when it was first released, then they had fix everything in Kunark (which has multiple "eras"), and then they had to make Velious. Then it took almost four years after that for them to both fix everything and build the multiple Velious "eras".

If you join late like we did (me in Kunark, you in Velious I'm guessing) it looks like they jumped ahead, but really they've been building everything from Vanilla to Velious, brick by brick, the whole time.

[Khaleesi]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Others have mostly answered this, but just the one thing you're maybe missing is that Blue doesn't need to "fire up only a pre Kunark era version", because it already had that version.

Although it was before your (and also my) time, the server originally started with vanilla, and the staff slowly added content on top (as Llandris mentioned, doing so carefully, in a way that could easily be "played forward" later). The reason Kunark took seven years here is that the staff was still fixing issues in Vanilla when it was first released, then they had fix everything in Kunark (which has multiple "eras"), and then they had to make Velious. Then it took almost four years after that for them to both fix everything and build the multiple Velious "eras".

If you join late like we did (me in Kunark, you in Velious I'm guessing) it looks like they jumped ahead, but really they've been building everything from Vanilla to Velious, brick by brick, the whole time.

Was going back through this thread and realized I had missed quite a few kind responses from yourselves.

Not sure about where you got the idea of my characters being post Kunkark/Velious as they are far from that.
It's precisely why I was dubious at best about how it would all work and now after reading the actual details, even more dubious.

Brick by brick is pointless when the foundations and the bricks are lined with unclassic changes and concepts.

I could stomach it :

If the carebear list system was not implemented.

and

If the Green > Blue forced migration did not let you take across an items that are nerfed, blocked, banned, removed etc. on Blue.
It's bad enough we're injecting more characters into Blue, with items that..hell I can't even finish this sentence. The more I try to reconcile this, the more I cannot even contemplate what the flying fu** they are possibly thinking.

Everyone I know and that we discuss Green with, as soon as they find out that not only are characters being pushed back into Blue, though they can take items with them, there's either a quick 'wtf?' or a long awkward silence, in which you can tell they're thinking 'wtf?'
It's the number one reason why Blue players won't bother with Green.






It's simple, green should be the real live classic EverQuest

• No silly systems
• No custom content
• Patch release match the time line of release

You said yourselves, blue is like a test server and for me that is in the same vein as Basilisk is for SWG EMU. It should be 100% independent of whatever Green does.


What happened to ...

#nochanges
#classic

[urbanbo]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Green has been tested, heavily, for about a decade: it's called Blue (aka the "Beta Green" server) ... or at least its content has.

The "hoops" that Rogean has to jump through to release a new server have also been tested (eg. in addition to Blue and Red he brought up a whole separate Velious test server before Velious was released), so really I doubt there's much need for testing on any level.

Basically, for ten years everything the P99 team has been doing has pretty much been just building towards Green.

What if Daybreak were to step in at this point and request that 10 years of work for their next TLP?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by urbanbo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What if Daybreak were to step in at this point and request that 10 years of work for their next TLP?

They would have no legal claim to it. Quick backstory on copyright (with the obligatory warning that I'm not a layer) ...

When you write anything (a book, a line of computer code ... anything that involves creative effort on some level, so not like phone book entries or something like that, but just about everything else), you own a copyright to what you wrote. You get that copyright automatically, the moment you write something. Whenever you see the © symbol and the author's name/date, that's not technically necessary: it's just the author adding a little more "legal strength" (should the copyright ever get tested in court). Fundamentally they already own the copyright without that symbol.

So back in '99-'01 the original EQ devs wrote the server code for EverQuest, and because they signed a contract with Verant before they wrote it, Verant (later SOE) owned the copyright on that source code. But, as far as anyone knows, that code has since been lost to time: not even SOE or Daybreak have it today.

Because it was lost, the devs here never even had a chance to look at it. What they did was reverse engineer it (ie. they figured out how the old code must have worked, and wrote their own, completely original, code). Because they wrote original code, they, not Daybreak, owns the copyright on that code.

So why did the P99 people enter that agreement with Daybreak then? Two reasons. First, there's the copyright on the client.

For legal reasons P99 is very careful never to tell anyone how to get the Titanium client, and the reason is they don't own the copyright on that. No one has ever reverse-engineered and re-created an open EQ client (it's theoretically possible, but man that'd be a big project). Plus, the client doesn't just have code: it has graphic models, which are also protected by copyright. Even if programmers re-invented the code behind them, we'd need 100% new (unclassic) models if we wanted a completely legal and Daybreak-independent P99 client. Thus, all of us players are in theory infringing on Daybreak's IP when we "pirate" the Titanium client.

Now again, P99 stays away from that, but in a sense they're encouraging copyright violation, so it's not 100% black and white in their favor. Sure Daybreak isn't even selling that client anymore (in fact, they never really sold it originally either), and there are these things known as "fair use rights", so we players might be protected ... but when it comes to IP laws who is right isn't all that matters. "Do you have enough money to to sustain a lawsuit long enough to prove that you are right" is also a huge factor, and Daybreak can almost certainly outspend R&N on lawyers, so regardless of who would "win" in such a fight ... R&N would lose.

On top of that, Daybreak still owns the trademarks on terms like EverQuest and Firiona Vie. Without getting into details, trademarks work differently than copyright, and there's plenty of "gray area" there for a vicious corporation to out-lawyer R&N if they wanted.

Long story short, R&N definitely won with the Daybreak agreement (and so did Daybreak). Daybreak definitely has some legal leverage to hold over R&N's head. But when it comes to the P99 server code specifically, that's R&N's, and no one can touch it.