Will Hybrid XP penalties be implemented on Green Server launch?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by pink grapefruit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The more I learn what classic EQ was really like, the more it sounds like green will be a Sullon Zek type of server.

What Zura wants is not what classic was like. It most certainly was not like Sullon Zek, but the thing is, whatever it may have been, it's impossible to recreate how classic truly was at this point: that ship has sailed.

Just like Zura's argument sailed before this thread even started [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

P.S. Zura you still never answered this:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You think classic non-PnP + modern server = classic server. Literally everyone else thinks that adds up to a mess, not a classic server. And yet you keep pushing the idea anyway, despite the fact that you've had absolutely no success whatsoever: not one single person in any of these threads you've taken over has replied "yeah, I buy what Zuranthium is selling".

And to be clear, you do take over other people's threads, in a disrespectful way. Changing a thread's topic organically is normal here, but you've followed a deliberate pattern for the past week or so. You ignore the topic at hand but use it as an excuse to go off on your pet issue, then reply to every response made (probably with the simplistic belief that by getting the last word you "win" the argument) ... until everyone talking to you realizes that they're talking to a wall. At that point the thread dies because the people originally interested in it have long since left.

You either just don't realize you're doing that, and don't realize that all this effort you're putting in is having absolutely no benefit whatsoever ... or that you realize it, but don't care, because the real audience of all this effort is R&N. And if that's the case, it suggests that:

• A) you think they're complete morons who couldn't come up with the idea, but your revelation will enlighten them, and/or:
• B) they have thought of it, but you you know better than them how to run the world's most popular emulated EQ server ... despite the fact that they've overseen literally tens of thousands of hours of volunteer CS effort

So which is it? Are you tone deaf and unaware of how anyone perceives your posts? Or aware but thinking "it doesn't matter, as long as I can enlighten R&N, which I'm totally doing with this campaign"? (Or both?)

You said something about how R&N can't know everything event though they've run this server for 10 years and you've run it for 0 years, so it sounded like maybe you picked:

Or aware but thinking "it doesn't matter, as long as I can enlighten R&N, which I'm totally doing with this campaign"

(But also probably tone deaf because you said it was a fallacy that no one agrees with you when literally no one has posted that they agree with you in any of these threads. If I'm wrong, just quote the one that say "I buy what Zura is selling".)

[loramin]

And one last thing:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You either need better reading comprehension, or need to stop repeating the same wrong assumptions. If you actually read the content of the thread, then you'll see I was responding to other posters about the subject being discussed, and provided a very detailed discourse on the subject. The conversation naturally developed from there.

Forget about all the other threads; let's just look at this one. You started out topical ...

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pally's and SK's don't really tank any better than other melee classes in early EQ...

But then you pull your signature Zura move and redirected the conversation to something totally unrelated that no one but you wanted to talk about (emphasis added):

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They do good DPS when giving their pet a fine steel dagger(s) and Harmtouch becomes relevant for racing to 51% damage on a specific contested NPC.

And the very first reply called you out on it (while at the same time playing into your game by redirecting the conversation where you wanted it):

Originally Posted by Pindrought [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

KS'ing and training people are both against the rules so what relevance does that have? Or is there something i'm missing?

But no you're totally trying just trying to have a conversation with people about the topic at hand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. You're not interjecting your pet issue into other people's conversations so you can "prove how right you are" (ie. keep replying, ignoring most of what everyone says while getting one quip per quote in, until everyone gives up because you're not a human trying to engage in discussion you're a mindless reply robot).

And you're not tone-deaf and arguing with the world pointlessly, you're changing minds ... and we'll just ignore the fact that not one single mind has changed after making ... how many "change everyone's mind about this" posts have you made on this topic (in threads on unrelated topics)?

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In a virtual world where potentially every success boils down to outdpsing the competition, guilds would not actively recruit nonessential classes and players who opted out of raiding would be less inclined to play those classes as well, for fear of losing a named to any old passerby.

Guilds already don't recruit nonessential classes, and actually with that system in the game there are *more* "essential" classes, because you have the classes who excel for big raid targets and the classes who excel for the other content. Every top guild would still need Warriors for raid targets, regardless of them being shit for other content.

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even as populated as the server is, few bother grouping in certain zones due to a lack of drops and abundance of harder mobs; instead they switch to an alt and level up in a different but equally popular zone. Idk if removing the PNP would change those habits all that much.

There aren't going to be any relevant drops available to the general playerbase on Green99 if the non-Classic system is kept. A small handful of players will not sleep when the server is launched; they will level up as quickly as possible to get to a sufficient farming level, and then they will go lock down the big item drop spawns.

Less populated zones/areas would certainly get used more though, in the DPS system. People will naturally gravitate away from places where it gets too competitive if it means they can't sit at their little camp and get full exp off those NPCs. Also as I talked about, if it requires more people to contest top item camps, then it means less people are elsewhere in the game world.

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And how many groups would be primarily comprised of Necromancers and Enchanters with charmed pets? The meta would change drastically. Minmax would take over. Not saying there wouldn't be an element of fun and risk in doing so, but again it would make certain classes irrelevant.

This is *already* what Green99 is going to be for non-Raid play. Pet classes are massively OP in 1999 era and those are the classes who are going to level the fastest and thus be able to claim the big item camps the fastest. With competition available, other people at least have a chance to get in the mix.

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If DPS was the deciding factor, how many players would group with new, untwinked players? The risk would be too great to have a Monk who only had a Peacebringer and FBSS.

*only* a Peacebringer and FBSS?!? What the hell? That IS a twinked character, and you're talking about Kunark era now. The character you just described is more twinked than anything that's possible in pre-Kunark.

In any case though, new and untwinked characters would not face much greater challenge than now. Twinked/pet people will choose to group with them or not, the same as now, and DPS racing won't be relevant in remote exping areas. There's plenty of spots in the game for people to just level up, without having to worry about needing to compete for targets.

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Getting put on the AC list in OOT or waiting LFG at the KC zoneline might chip away at our sense of adventure and "anything can happen" in the game, but the alternative would require a certain amount of self-regulating on the part of the playerbase

There's no such thing as "getting put on the AC list" with the P99 system. Whoever owns the camp can hand it off to anyone they want (aka someone in their farming guild, who will then hand it off to another person in their farming guild, etc).

Only with Classic-era Play Nice Policy, are lists actually an equitable thing. Also, some people are going to be waiting LFG no matter what the system is. There are going to be plenty of "regular" exp spots/camps even if a DPS-race system is in place, as not everyone wants to play the game like that; it doesn't even make sense to in terms of trying maximize your exp gain. DPS is simply a number, it eventually hits plateau somewhere. People are only able to kill what their damage output is capable of; if they overextend to try to bite off more than they can chew, they are only slowing themselves down.

---
(and now for the useless loramin shit)

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What Zura wants is not what classic was like.

You are wrong and don't know what classic was like, and you refuse to listen to factual evidence. When are you going to stop flailing around with inane spam postings?

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But then you pull your signature Zura move and redirected the conversation to something totally unrelated that no one but you wanted to talk about

The topic replied to was about the effectiveness of Hybrids in Classic and that's exactly what I talked about. You simply choose to be ignorant to the fact that damage racing happened, *at times*, in Classic. It was a real part of the gameplay and what a class could bring to the table.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

literally no one has posted that they agree with you in any of these threads.

There goes your lack of reading comprehension and/or willful ignorance again. It's pathetic how you keep trying to erase history, even when it happened in the past 24 hours, right in front of your face. Moreover, whether people agree in the threads or not is irrelevant. Popularity does not equal correctness. Besides, there are multitudes of players from early EQ who don't post on these forums, nor at this very moment.

[Benanov]

Back at the long-abandoned point:

Yeah I can't see myself playing on green if it's a "warts and all" recreation of the 1999 era game. I played a Rogue then and...god. Rogues were awful at launch.

I fell in love with Hybrids at FV launch. No way in hell I'm going to put up with that XP penalty, and I'm not sure that anyone else will. After all, XP sharing isn't based on penalty - it's based on the current XP each party member has - so someone willing to put up with a TRL SHD's huge penalty at lower levels will be much less likely to do so at higher levels.

Blue already has twinked min-max characters bitching about how adding 2 more people to the group will make their XP bar not move and so they leave to solo - and that's with the race penalties being the only ones left.

[Troxx]

Summary:

-long thread
-hybrid penalties suck but will likely be in
-one dude wants PNP to be revoked so we can have dps fights to rationalize shitty player behavior

[radbeard]

I assume hybrid penalties will be in and that makes me sad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[aaezil]

Whether its a dps race or a camp line or a race you will always be beat by the most unshaven and unemployed among us. Tis just the way of things.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whether its a dps race or a camp line or a race you will always be beat by the most unshaven and unemployed among us. Tis just the way of things.

This isn't true though. DPS race inherently limits the ability of a single poopsocker. They need to bring in friends if they want to hold down high-priority camps, and if these people are crowding around content that doesn't normally require so much effort, then they are no longer somewhere else in the game world at that point in time. They aren't collectively able to hold down as many camps, and they get far less time to level up twinked alts.

It's true that people who play more and exclusively "power game" the content will generally always have an advantage, but they get the smallest advantage under the classic 1999 ruleset (given that pretty much the entire playerbase now understands the game, and isn't just getting lost in Faydark for days at a time).

What's also true is that the current p99 design goal will NEVER result in a fully satisfying game, regardless of whatever form of PnP it uses. p99 as it stands will never be more than a bottom-barrel drug or a niche museum. But at least it could try to be the most thoughtful version of itself.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

one dude wants PNP to be revoked so we can have dps fights to rationalize shitty player behavior

You're trying to rationalize competition and the classic, immersive MMORPG experience as shitty player behavior. Anything that gets in the way of you sitting on your ass and not having to think or be challenged is "bad". Long live the philistines!

The PNP (at least part of it anyway) should be revoked specifically because that's what 1999 EQ was; it's how the game was designed, and p99 is striving to recreate every detail of the game it feasibly can. The anti-truth brigade can try to deny it all you want, but the facts will never change.

If a PNP does exist, it should be the actual classic PNP. Not the garbage unclassic p99 PNP that warps the game and caters to poopsockers. The way people keep trying to ignore this point is very sad.

[aaezil]

Why are you assuming theres just a single person? If rules were dps the nerds would bring more dps than you.