Let's talk CLASS BALANCE

[goodthink]

The charm of eq is that:

a) They were never really concerned with the types of balance you are advocating. Each class was it's own bubble and the only time Verant took action towards balancing was when some element of game play violated the specific vision for that class.

b) EQ was damn hard.


Now, what I don't get is how you can come to a server dedicated to emulating a classic server with classic progression and complain that they are too much like classic.

[Zuranthium]

Thank you Kino. Very much appreciated that.

Originally Posted by Doors [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This dumbass quote backed up by absolutely nothing at all.

Exactly what do I need to back up? I know precisely what I am talking about and if you don't believe me or agree with me, then find evidence to the contrary. I'm not going to waste time doing internet archive searches for supporting evidence about something I am a Guru about and lived through. It doesn't feel like you played EQ when I did, or you simply weren't well informed during that era, as attributed to your knee-jerk (and incorrect) reactionary responses here and now in 2011.

For some time in Classic, the Necromancer pet would outdamage ANY melee class in the game all by itself (although not against bosses. Incidentally, very early in EQ, Necromancer lifetaps were actually 100% unresistable regardless of level and Level 1 Necromancer could go Lifetap a level 50+ MOB if they could get there). That was even after a couple rounds of nerfs to the base damage pets did in general. As a result of weapons lowering pet attack speed without decreasing the damage dealt, a Necromancer pet in even just the mid-30's was essentially acting as a melee class that was dual-wielding 19/19 weapons. The highest level Necro pet was equivalent to dual-wielding 28/19 weapons...which was an entire galaxy more powerful than even the very best weapons in the game at the time (and the vast majority of melee players never saw those weapon). Then on top of that, the Necromancer had all of their other spells. Necromancers were unfathomably overpowered when the game came out and it took a long series of nerfs to bring them in line, with the fix to pet attack delay being the final nerf in the series that put their abilities at the correct level.

After the nerf to pet attack delay, the Necromancer pet was doing approximately 55% the damage it did before the nerf (when properly equipped). Even then, it still put out a significant amount of damage and, when combined with their spells, the Necromancer would outdamage any melee class (except against the very top end MOBs in the game). Magicians were similarly excellent DPS, even before the Magician pet bug was finally fixed and they could dual-wield like the Necro pets could. After the update that allowed Magician pets to dual-wield, they were definitely the KINGS of generating DPS (just not against bosses).

And then Kunark came out and everything the designers had been balancing went to shit.

Originally Posted by hrafn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

shamans and druids heal the same til kunark after which druids get better heals. check the spell lists. sorry but i dont think melee want a torpor so they cant do any damage.

Druids do not get better heals. They get ONE heal the Shaman doesn't have, at Level 60, and that heal is awful with its sluggish casting time and less mana efficiency than the Level 55 heal. Shaman are in fact better at healing during several levels in terms of the pure efficiency of the spells themselves, because their regen-over-time line is stronger. Warriors certainly DO want Torpor...after they have killed the pull and need to heal up for the next pull. Healing is not just about keeping people alive during combat but about allowing the team to continually pull.

Since you also seem to have missed the whole point of my argument, here we go again: Shaman have FAR more mana than Druids do. That means they can heal more, even though their direct healing spells themselves are the same. They also have a best-in-game slow line, which means the tanks can actually live against difficult MOBs because they are taking far less damage. Taking less damage also means less mana needing to be spent after combat to heal up. So, I will say it yet again - a single Shaman on their own is as good of a defensive character as 4 Druids put together. And while those 4 Druids sit there spamming their heals to match the efficiency of what a single Shaman can do with preventing/healing damage, that Shaman's pet is adding extra DPS to the group at no extra cost as well. Oh, but Druids get teleports.

Not balanced. Not nearly.

[goodthink]

not supposed to be

[Zuranthium]

Yes it is, to a degree, in a "hey, look what I can do, what can you do?" kind of way where the classes are able to do different things and they somewhat equal out in their usefulness overall.

[mimixownzall]

So, this is just a huge whine thread since nothing will be changed.

BTW: your ride showed up.

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[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes it is, to a degree, in a "hey, look what I can do, what can you do?" kind of way where the classes are able to do different things and they somewhat equal out in their usefulness overall.

+1

[Taryth]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly what do I need to back up? I know precisely what I am talking about and if you don't believe me or agree with me, then find evidence to the contrary. I'm not going to waste time doing internet archive searches for supporting evidence about something I am a Guru about and lived through.

I'm starting to believe you actually are a troll.

The burden of evidence, in any case, would be on the person making the claim/s (you.) The person in the negative position doesn't have to do shit until you provide evidence that supports your argument/s.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by mimixownzall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, this is just a huge whine.

Considering the number of people who can't comprehend the concepts of game theory and game balance and don't want to engage in the intellectual discourse required to participate in the conversation...yes, that might be an accurate description of the responses herein.

Originally Posted by Taryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The burden of evidence, in any case, would be on the person making the claim/s (you.) The person in the negative position doesn't have to do shit until you provide evidence that supports your argument/s.

When someone is a certified expert they don't have to cite textbook details for how something works. When a doctor tells you, "this is what's wrong with you", you don't get an hour-long biology lesson in addition to your prescription. If you disagree with them, then research it yourself or have another expert cite evidence to the contrary.

Everything I've said has been proven to be correct - such as in the Hybrid thread where many people disagreed with the spellcasting changes I said Hybrids received in Classic and someone then found the evidence and posted it in the "Spells" forum. I've talked about the DoT nerf that was in Classic and people laughed at me...oh look, the designers just now implemented it. I'm not going to spend time running around trying to find the exact internet archives of the game developers talking about EQ back in the day. That's insulting to my expertise. I'm sure the designers on THIS server have found all of those and have them saved, if they want to reference something.

But by all means, continue to believe I'm such a troll and such an uninformed player if you want. That must be why, in addition to all of the knowledgeable claims I've made on the forum, I started playing on this server 2 weeks ago and now have a Level 40 character and 10k in the bank, playing ONLY in Old World zones, and without receiving any outside twinking or PLing assistance. Yeah, I must not know what I'm doing.

[Doors]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly what do I need to back up? I know precisely what I am talking about and if you don't believe me or agree with me, then find evidence to the contrary.

I don't need to find shit. I never came into this thread saying soandso class was the best dps ever way back. You did. This is why you are a moron. You go around saying shit that is untrue, and whenever you say it you provide zero evidence to support your claims. And this little gem quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not going to waste time doing internet archive searches for supporting evidence about something I am a Guru about and lived through.

Shows how much of an egotistical dumbass you are. A guru? Please. If you're going to spout off about shit you're clueless about either provide some background information, some type of statistical data, or shut the fuck up. Nobody takes you seriously because you're a moron in every sense of the word. If this world ran by your standards, companies wouldn't need statistical data to make desicions, they're fuckin guru's man! They just know everything!

Anyone listening to this kid is as stupid as he is. YOUNG GURU.

[Doors]

This morons actually getting sigged. A guru. Please pull your head out of your ass, you're no better than the average bad playing here.