Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

idk man

new / low budget players that have no intention to ever solo artist with their shaman but rather will focus on grouping and getting to 60 will benefit a lot more from regen than FSI

I've already agreed with you that Regen is better while leveling, both in in my guide and in this thread. I don't think anybody disagrees here. But plenty of Ogre/Barbarian Shamans have leveled to 60 just fine.

FSI is the Min/Max option because the point of leveling is to get to 60 and play the endgame. Once you get to level 60, faster leveling is irrelevant. Plently of people play their level 60 characters for years.

FSI is better than Troll/Iksar regen once you have Torpor. Shamans can tank well in groups, so it isn't like FSI provides no benefit for a player who prefers to group.

[Snaggles]

Not every thread has to be a holy war for your one thing. To date, the thousands of posts hasn’t produced enough “proof” to hang a hat on. Because nobody has bash-interupt on GINA and has documented every death in WW for the last decade.

Sometimes when a new player asks a question just answer the question. In this case, they already want to play a race (a very common thing) and are justifying if it’s too much of a struggle. We acknowledged it is more a struggle than the other races because a JBB is like 1/10ths price of a turnkey epic. Also that an uphill battle doesn’t mean one that can’t be climbed. Iksars make the best monks and necros, people still opt not to make them all the time…the shaman racial perks outside the JBB access are almost indistinguishable.

If someone really wants to “just get to endgame” the choice is very obvious…get a barb epic’ed and enjoy the 5% penalty instead of the 15% or 20% one. I’d rant more about that but again, not what the OP wanted to know. They don’t want to justify playing a barbarian.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not every thread has to be a holy war for your one thing.

Not every threads needs to be trolled by nonsense posting like this. I am im no holy war, nor did I start this topic in this thread. You don't read theads and make false assumptions. Please stop making up nonsense like this.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To date, the thousands of posts hasn’t produced enough “proof” to hang a hat on. Because nobody has bash-interupt on GINA and has documented every death in WW for the last decade.

Incorrect. I have provided plenty of math and evidence already. You do not simply get to handwave it all away because you are too lazy to provide counter evidence and logic of your own to rebut what I have presented.

If you think this level of proof is required, then you also need to provide a decade of regeneration data to prove how often people are even under 100% HP to prove your position.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sometimes when a new player asks a question just answer the question. In this case, they already want to play a race (a very common thing) and are justifying if it’s too much of a struggle. We acknowledged it is more a struggle than the other races because a JBB is like 1/10ths price of a turnkey epic. Also that an uphill battle doesn’t mean one that can’t be climbed. Iksars make the best monks and necros, people still opt not to make them all the time…the shaman racial perks outside the JBB access are almost indistinguishable.

I did just answer the question. I didn't change the topic. You really need to talk to the trolls and people who consistently derail threads, not me. You keep avoiding the real problem.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If someone really wants to “just get to endgame” the choice is very obvious…get a barb epic’ed and enjoy the 5% penalty instead of the 15% or 20% one. I’d rant more about that but again, not what the OP wanted to know. They don’t want to justify playing a barbarian.

Getting to 60 faster is not Min/Max, but you are correct a Barbarian can level faster if someone wants to do that.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

idk man

new / low budget players that have no intention to ever solo artist with their shaman but rather will focus on grouping and getting to 60 will benefit a lot more from regen than FSI

Yeah … regen is just better for the full scope of a shaman’s life.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah … regen is just better for the full scope of a shaman’s life.

Still incorrect, FSI is better in the endgame. Ogre is the Min/Max option. You still haven't provided anything to back up this claim regarding regeneration, nor have you disproven anything I have said.

[Toxigen]

bUt muH MiN mAX !!!

[Jimjam]

OP, if you’re still reading please remember that the point isn’t to hit 60 - that is just when the levels stop (at this point in the time line). The point is to enjoy the process, have fun, make friends (or at least enjoy hanging out).

Honestly I think you’ll have more fun not zombiebraining wrist spam!

[fortior]

everyone always says that xp penalties don't matter at 60 but they conveniently forget that time at 60 is infinitely more profitable than time getting to 60, since you have way more raid oppts and cash camps available. doubly so for shamans who get torpor.

this means that if you take 2 months longer to level to 60 as an ogre than as a barbarian, and at 60 you can do the same camps as either race, you're forever 2 months behind in plat/dkp as the ogre until you reach BiS

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

everyone always says that xp penalties don't matter at 60 but they conveniently forget that time at 60 is infinitely more profitable than time getting to 60, since you have way more raid oppts and cash camps available. doubly so for shamans who get torpor.

this means that if you take 2 months longer to level to 60 as an ogre than as a barbarian, and at 60 you can do the same camps as either race, you're forever 2 months behind in plat/dkp as the ogre until you reach BiS

If someone is really worried about leveling to 60 asap, the answer isn't picking which race has the best XP bonus. The answer is having a good leveling strategy and playing with a static group. That will get you to 60 faster than anything else.

Min/Max is looking at which race/class combination is the most powerful at level 60 with Torpor, Epic, Raid Gear, etc. This is because Min/Max looks at the end result, not how to get to the end result. The answer to what is Min/Max for a Shaman is Ogre due to FSI.

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

everyone always says that xp penalties don't matter at 60 but they conveniently forget that time at 60 is infinitely more profitable than time getting to 60, since you have way more raid oppts and cash camps available. doubly so for shamans who get torpor.

this means that if you take 2 months longer to level to 60 as an ogre than as a barbarian, and at 60 you can do the same camps as either race, you're forever 2 months behind in plat/dkp as the ogre until you reach BiS

I am fully convinced by this argument, and now believe Barbarian has the best racial.

Realistically, you get the best gear by raiding. The most effective raiding setup is to actually be raiding, which requires being high level, which requires getting to high level. Being at raid level for a longer period of time is therefore a stronger boost to character performance than any of the other racials.

None of the other racials have a meaningful impact outside soloing, but soloing is generally not a mix-max approach vs. raiding anyway. Its fine for FSI to be better at soloing, though that hasn't been proven (especially vs. Iksar, with both AC and regen benefits potentially increasing the steady-state damage taken). But that's not a min-max setup even if it is due to lack of contribution to small group content and raiding situations.

Even solo, you have to have enough cases over the course of your career where FSI saves you in a solo camp situation to make up for the additional time spent being able to solo camp by being at 60 with Torpor earlier. I am extremely skeptical this is the case for anyone, especially anyone who does not play 40+ hours/week.

If FSI causes your success rate on killing Ayllish to go from 78%->81% or similar level of impact, but Barb XP bonus let you hit 60 and camp 25 extra Ayllishes before you would have as an Ogre, you have to do 833 Ayllishes before you pull ahead on the Ogre. At that point you're starting to get into "CHA is optimal warrior starting stats bc DI" levels of Min-Maxery that, while technically true, don't apply to anyone who isn't playing for tens of thousands of hours.

You have to quantify somehow how much this is helping before being able to confidently assert you're actually ahead vs. the Barb XP bonus on a given amount of time invested playing, you can't just say that its better so is obviously superior.