Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup, bluffing your way through[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once you reveal what you think the "variables" are, I can easily math it out and show you it doesn't change the averages. Monster stats don't change solo vs. group.

How about when the charms are eating mobs alive and your idiot dots tick like once or twice per mob like I mentioned like 3 times and you ignored or didn't read at all? You act like you're the only person that's ever played everquest before. I've had a 60 shaman and 50 necro on P99. I know how dot damage in groups works. It fucking sucks dick cause mobs almost always die too quick for them to be efficient. In a group that's chain pulling mobs that die in ~30s or less your DoT DPS is going to be ass and there's no debate or data or math about it. A mage nuking once or twice will beat your dots every single time and not by a small amount. The only way dots can be decent in this scenario is root rotting adds which is fucking stupid.

God damn your ignorance is frustrating

[PlsNoBan]

Not to mention unless you're pulling/killing incredibly slowly you WILL NOT be able to maintain casting bane and pox on every single mob without ever going oom. Canni and torpor are great but not THAT great. The claims you're making are asinine. They aren't sustainable and not realistic in a high dps fast pulling group. Your solo data is garbage.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about when the charms are eating mobs alive and your idiot dots tick like once or twice per mob like I mentioned like 3 times and you ignored or didn't read at all? You act like you're the only person that's ever played everquest before. I've had a 60 shaman and 50 necro on P99. I know how dot damage in groups works. It fucking sucks dick cause mobs almost always die too quick for them to be efficient. In a group that's chain pulling mobs that die in ~30s or less your DoT DPS is going to be ass and there's no debate or data or math about it. A mage nuking once or twice will beat your dots every single time and not by a small amount. The only way dots can be decent in this scenario is root rotting adds which is fucking stupid.

God damn your ignorance is frustrating

You didn't read the data then.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638

This is DPS assuming the mob dies at an average of 36 seconds per kill, from Troxx's own data.

I am not using DoTs on the mobs that die in 36 seconds.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You didn't read the data then.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638

This is DPS assuming the mob dies at an average of 36 seconds per kill, from Troxx's own data.

I am not using DoTs on the mobs that die in 36 seconds.

Oh you mean the data where the mage is doing 50% more DPS than you? Sounds like we're in agreement I guess. Mage is significantly more damage. Who would've guessed? It's easy to look at 27.5 DPS and act like it's not a big deal but it's literally like 50% more damage than you and I'd wager that's on the low side. I would be shocked if you grouped with a mage for an hour in a fast killing group and were only 27 dps lower overall. But even if you were like I said that's still 50% more and not insignificant. No idea what your talking about with mana spent. Is that 1 nuke for mage 2 nukes for shaman per 36 sec for the duration of a fight? Cause 1 mage nuke isn't 2260 mana and 2 shaman nukes isn't 1724. No idea where you pulled those numbers from. If you're basing it on the time it took you to solo a mob that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard since mobs will be dying way quicker than that in a group. I also assume you didn't account for mod rods. Regardless of your obsession with data and math a mage isn't going to have any considerable mana issues in a group like this with permanent clarity and the ability to rely on pet dps to med through where necessary. Troxx stated he didn't have mana issues all night in the group he posted parses from. Shaman pet is significantly less dps when the shaman has to stop to canni.

Edit for math data (it's off by 0.1 from Troxx's DPS please don't yell at me):
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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh you mean the data where the mage is doing 50% more DPS than you? Sounds like we're in agreement I guess. Mage is significantly more damage. Who would've guessed? It's easy to look at 27.5 DPS and act like it's not a big deal but it's literally like 50% more damage than you and I'd wager that's on the low side. I would be shocked if you grouped with a mage for an hour in a fast killing group and were only 27 dps lower overall. But even if you were like I said that's still 50% more and not insignificant.

When you have 2 Enchanter pets 27 DPS isn't a big deal. A group killing a mob with 8000 HP in 36 seconds is doing 222 DPS already. Changing the DPS to 192 only changes the fight time to 42 seconds per mob.

A Shaman can help the group out in other ways, such as lower downtime between mobs. They are better at assisting with charm breaks, they take less time to re-malo the charmed pets and get back into the fight since they can recover mana faster and malo is better than mala. Buffs and heals reduce the chance of deaths, etc. Shamans are also better when dealing with tough mobs such as Ixiblat Fer.

And again, a Shaman can do 84 DPS by root/rotting two mobs. If a group cares about DPS, they would do everything they can to decrease kill times, which means root/rotting mobs they haven't gotten to yet. If they didn't care about DPS, why would they sweat 27 DPS in a group already doing 160+ DPS just from Enchanter pets?

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you have 2 Enchanter pets 27 DPS isn't a big deal. A group killing a mob with 8000 HP in 36 seconds is doing 222 DPS already. Changing the DPS to 192 only changes the fight time to 42 seconds per mob.

A Shaman can help the group out in other ways, such as lower downtime between mobs. They are better at assisting with charm breaks, they take less time to re-malo the charmed pets and get back into the fight since they can recover mana faster and malo is better than mala. Buffs and heals reduce the chance of deaths, etc. Shamans are also better when dealing with tough mobs such as Ixiblat Fer.

And again, a Shaman can do 84 DPS by root/rotting two mobs. If a group cares about DPS, they would do everything they can to decrease kill times, which means root/rotting mobs they haven't gotten to yet. If they didn't care about DPS, why would they sweat 27 DPS in a group already doing 160+ DPS just from Enchanter pets?

Sorry mage does 50% more DPS than you. At least you got your unnecessary utility to bring to a group with multiple enchanters and a cleric already. I guess if the enchanters are bad at everquest and the cleric is asleep a shaman could be helpful to correct their mistakes. I was going with the assumption that the players in this hypothetical group weren't bad. If we're assuming bad players then yes bring a shaman instead.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry mage does 50% more DPS than you. At least you got your unnecessary utility to bring to a group with multiple enchanters and a cleric already. I guess if the enchanters are bad at everquest and the cleric is asleep a shaman could be helpful to correct their mistakes. I was going with the assumption that the players in this hypothetical group weren't bad. If we're assuming bad players then yes bring a shaman instead.

If the players are good, then they can handle the Shaman root/rotting mobs. At that point the Shaman is at least matching a Mages DPS. If the players are bad, the Shaman is helping to cover mistakes. In both situations the broader toolkit of a Shaman allows for better coverage in any unexpected situation.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the players are good, then they can handle the Shaman root/rotting mobs. At that point the Shaman is at least matching a Mages DPS. If the players are bad, the Shaman is helping to cover mistakes. In both situations the broader toolkit of a Shaman allows for better coverage in any unexpected situation.

Nobody wants you root rotting mobs in their group just to do almost as much damage as a mage. Literally nobody. Sorry mage does 50% more DPS than you. If you want I can try to resurrect Brad McQuaid and ask him why he made mages do so much more damage than shamans but I'm not sure it'd help. I realize this has caused you a great deal of distress but I'm afraid you'll just have to get over it at some point.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody wants you root rotting mobs in their group just to do almost as much damage as a mage. Literally nobody. Sorry mage does 50% more DPS than you. If you want I can try to resurrect Brad McQuaid and ask him why he made mages do so much more damage than shamans but I'm not sure it'd help. I realize this has caused you a great deal of distress but I'm afraid you'll just have to get over it at some point.

Hopefully before you post 500 times about it. Gratz on 400 posts in this thread btw.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You need to answer this simple question:

If a group doesn't care about losing 30+ DPS because they don't want their Shaman root/rotting, why do they care about losing 30 DPS by picking a Shaman over Mage?