Nuffwin <Bregan D'Aerth> Known Ninja Looter Strikes Again

[Thana8088]

Originally Posted by getsome [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If this occurred post shout, then your initially puller should have known someone else had agro, and petitioned properly if Fay was suspected of being kited.

Yeah, but BDA can't be bothered to petition. They prefer to vigilante it up and KS.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) the logs should be proof enough when you consider point #2

2) you're right, 4 minutes is the proper time a pull should take, which is why it's puzzling that Taken pulled but had not yet engaged, and only after we tagged 4 minutes later did the fish start his 4+ minute dash to ogre island - thus the 9 minutes between Taken "FtE" and a raid force legitimately engaging the target which is double the amount of time it should have taken (heh). It could have been even longer had our pullers not found Fay.

3) that quote is from one of your guides - so either one can conclude that BDA isn't a raid guild thus we had no idea (that's a softball for the trolls) or these new standards weren't made public for all parties.

I only want an even playing field and right now it seems like the rules are changing every other day. I distinctly remember FE getting FTE on Cazic with a solo wizard and TMO killed him, but TMO kept the loot - same circumstances (FTE rules all!) different results. I know you/your staff have limited tools to work with but that's an easy call to make, it's blatant kiting.

Prove that Fay is only a 4 min pull.

[Lanuven]

The rules are constantly changing based on the different GM's at the time. When we had Sev tagged and pulling to camp once, IB pulled it off our pullers and GM ruled it wasn't first to engage, it was first to get the mob to their camp. Everything is different now and "raid guilds," who aren't part of the constant GM rulings don't know the rules anymore. And the rules that are posted on the forums are not in clear sight, so you must go dredging through RNF to find them.

No thanks.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) the logs should be proof enough when you consider point #2

2) you're right, 4 minutes is the proper time a pull should take, which is why it's puzzling that Taken pulled but had not yet engaged, and only after we tagged 4 minutes later did the fish start his 4+ minute dash to ogre island - thus the 9 minutes between Taken "FtE" and a raid force legitimately engaging the target which is double the amount of time it should have taken (heh). It could have been even longer had our pullers not found Fay.

3) that quote is from one of your guides - so either one can conclude that BDA isn't a raid guild thus we had no idea (that's a softball for the trolls) or these new standards weren't made public for all parties.

I only want an even playing field and right now it seems like the rules are changing every other day. I distinctly remember FE getting FTE on Cazic with a solo wizard and TMO killed him, but TMO kept the loot - same circumstances (FTE rules all!) different results. I know you/your staff have limited tools to work with but that's an easy call to make, it's blatant kiting.

ok, i'll bite.

1) the logs showed Taken as having FTE, which is why they were awarded the mob, and its loots.

2) i guess i'll repeat myself.. Again, we dont ban players just because randomplayer01 cries cheats. i need actual proof that they delayed your guild by kiting the mob.

3A) i looked it up, it was from Zade. he primarily serves on the red server, but with all the petitions that blue server players sent in during the DoS i asked him to spend more time on blue as i was essentially soloing the server petition queue and didnt have much juice left. Zade may have been made aware of the issue two weeks ago prior to his post, however the guilds that raid are all well aware of the stance on this as it has been in place for at least 8 months.

3B) if there was a situation that received a staff ruling that was not consistent with previous rulings, then you need to bring it to MY attention. not Ephi, not Rogean, not Nilbog, not Zade, not Ambrotos, not Papaver (Unless you feel it was me that ruled inconsistently or unfairly, at which time you are encouraged to bring it to another GM). i can't read minds (regardless of all the effort ive put in), so if players don't tell me things, i have no idea. most times, if something happens and im MIA another staff member will come in, look at the situation, and use common sense to do the right thing. and if you follow the law of common sense, Ephi made a 100% accurate decision. furthermore, before Ephi was put in charge of the Anti Hacks/Cheats/Scams/RMT, FTE was exactly the way he treated it. and while i probably should have taken the time to let him know the change when i told the players, i simply did not make Ephi aware, and so that is my fault, not his. the only problem with the common sense system is that the decision is left up to staff discretion to make the right call, and that invites claims of GM favoritism, Staff Corruption, and other tinfoil hat talking points that players bring up when things dont go their way. 8 months ago i removed staff discretion from the equation, because right or wrong, i prefer a system that doesnt invite accusations which call into question the integrity of this staff.

3C) the rules havent changed, either you were MIA, or there was another guild officer that was told, or, your guild was non existent around that time. unless you've been under a rock for 8 months, theres really no reason for you not to be aware of this. 8 months man. its not like it was just ninja added. you have an even playing field, much more so than with previous staff that have held my position. and finally again, if you make an accusation the burden on proof falls on you.

you can scream rule breakers all you want, but without proof, it falls on deaf ears.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ok, i'll bite.

1) the logs showed Taken as having FTE, which is why they were awarded the mob, and its loots.

2) i guess i'll repeat myself.. Again, we dont ban players just because randomplayer01 cries cheats. i need actual proof that they delayed your guild by kiting the mob.

3A) i looked it up, it was from Zade. he primarily serves on the red server, but with all the petitions that blue server players sent in during the DoS i asked him to spend more time on blue as i was essentially soloing the server petition queue and didnt have much juice left. Zade may have been made aware of the issue two weeks ago prior to his post, however the guilds that raid are all well aware of the stance on this as it has been in place for at least 8 months.

3B) if there was a situation that received a staff ruling that was not consistent with previous rulings, then you need to bring it to MY attention. not Ephi, not Rogean, not Nilbog, not Zade, not Ambrotos, not Papaver (Unless you feel it was me that ruled inconsistently or unfairly, at which time you are encouraged to bring it to another GM). i can't read minds (regardless of all the effort ive put in), so if players don't tell me things, i have no idea. most times, if something happens and im MIA another staff member will come in, look at the situation, and use common sense to do the right thing. and if you follow the law of common sense, Ephi made a 100% accurate decision. furthermore, before Ephi was put in charge of the Anti Hacks/Cheats/Scams/RMT, FTE was exactly the way he treated it. and while i probably should have taken the time to let him know the change when i told the players, i simply did not make Ephi aware, and so that is my fault, not his. the only problem with the common sense system is that the decision is left up to staff discretion to make the right call, and that invites claims of GM favoritism, Staff Corruption, and other tinfoil hat talking points that players bring up when things dont go their way. 8 months ago i removed staff discretion from the equation, because right or wrong, i prefer a system that doesnt invite accusations which call into question the integrity of this staff.

3C) the rules havent changed, either you were MIA, or there was another guild officer that was told, or, your guild was non existent around that time. unless you've been under a rock for 8 months, theres really no reason for you not to be aware of this. 8 months man. its not like it was just ninja added. you have an even playing field, much more so than with previous staff that have held my position. and finally again, if you make an accusation the burden on proof falls on you.

you can scream rule breakers all you want, but without proof, it falls on deaf ears.

1) you're right, Taken had FTE based on your logs - your tools are limited, I get that.

2) the logs are the proof. This isn't sour grapes and randoming QQing. The logs show our tag + an ogre island engage thus yielding a fair transit time for that pull. That amount of time is equal to the span of time between Taken FTE and our tag. One could conclude that Fay should have been engaged roughly 4 to 5 minutes after a tag yet it wasn't. Do I need a smoking gun of someone following Eratani/Fay spamming sense heading while frapsing it? It's exhausting; not only do you have to beat the competition but you need a force of cameramen and lawyers afterwords.

3abc) I understand your logic, you're trying to negate the accusatory/favoritism bullshit thats pervasive on this server but by excluding rational thought it only fuels that fire. It's a thankless job and you have limited tools but removing logic from the equation is asinine especially when the logs are relatively conclusive. If these are the new standards then you might as well broadcast it / make a sticky / update the current ruleset because as Lanuven pointed out this was basically on the downlow.

[Joroz]

Originally Posted by Eccezan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

During repop, Nuffwin (Known lying cheat and BDA Druid) knowingly and BLATANTLY NINJALOOTS a Venril Sathir druid epic stone off a mob that his guild absolutely did NOT kill.

Since all guilds have bad eggs, we need to make sure that BDA is held responsible and shamed for this trifling example of greed.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

invite him to tmo then it will be like your guild member got the piece... i mean he is already on the same level.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) you're right, Taken had FTE based on your logs - your tools are limited, I get that.

2) the logs are the proof. This isn't sour grapes and randoming QQing. The logs show our tag + an ogre island engage thus yielding a fair transit time for that pull. That amount of time is equal to the span of time between Taken FTE and our tag. One could conclude that Fay should have been engaged roughly 4 to 5 minutes after a tag yet it wasn't. Do I need a smoking gun of someone following Eratani/Fay spamming sense heading while frapsing it? It's exhausting; not only do you have to beat the competition but you need a force of cameramen and lawyers afterwords.

3abc) I understand your logic, you're trying to negate the accusatory/favoritism bullshit thats pervasive on this server but by excluding rational thought it only fuels that fire. It's a thankless job and you have limited tools but removing logic from the equation is asinine especially when the logs are relatively conclusive. If these are the new standards then you might as well broadcast it / make a sticky / update the current ruleset because as Lanuven pointed out this was basically on the downlow.

2) but they aren't

[getsome]

When our pullers get fte shout, they also /shout in zone to let everyone know. I know its more of a gentleman thing to do but announcing you got FTE shout puts everyone in zone on notice so they do not interfere with your pull. Hopefully they will make FTE announcements a zone wide shout.

[khanable]

Originally Posted by getsome [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When our pullers get fte shout, they also /shout in zone to let everyone know. I know its more of a gentleman thing to do but announcing you got FTE shout puts everyone in zone on notice so they do not interfere with your pull. Hopefully they will make FTE announcements a zone wide shout.

For outdoor dragons they are adding zone-wide FTE shouts. There was a thread about it in the bugs section.

A welcomed addition, certainly.

[kotton05]

Sounds like an inexperienced pulling error.

While at jav range which is 250 I've seen the msg.. so you learned for next time I guess. What I don't get is I thought along with fte you needed at least more than a group or so on engage list or it's a snipe and ruled other way. Could be wrong tho.