It's Time to Start Allowing for Open Naggy/Vox Raids (open letter to Raiders)

[Pan]

Originally Posted by Breaken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here in lies the old debate. Why does it matter who rolls/wins the loot? The casual guilds argue that the aren't given the opportunity to see dragons, but then loot is an issue. Well, which is it? Is it the encounter or the loot? I've long known it's both, but many won't admit that.

It's clearly both. Hence my suggestion (ensure that it gets into the hands of those whose guilds aren't Naggy/Vox capable - or unguilded). And hope that people are honorable about it if we (collectively) decide to do it that way (IF we can agree to do it at all, here).

[skarlorn]

Detoxx kindly replied to my PM and has stated that AM doesn't actively go after Vox.

I'll do some outreach tomorrow to the remaining small guilds. Once we get those bases covered, I'll need someone to help me put a post in Raid Discussion; preferably someone who is willing to help organize/lead this event. PM me if you want to take this responsibility. (depending on the time of the first open Vox I may or may not be able to attend; I'm more interested in getting this organized from a community perspective than leading the nerd raid)

Then it will just be a matter of projecting out spawns based on timers and setting up an agreed upon Vox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We are going to make this happen!

[Kesselring]

Originally Posted by skarlorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Detoxx kindly replied to my PM and has stated that AM doesn't actively go after Vox.

I'll do some outreach tomorrow to the remaining small guilds. Once we get those bases covered, I'll need someone to help me put a post in Raid Discussion; preferably someone who is willing to help organize/lead this event. PM me if you want to take this responsibility. (depending on the time of the first open Vox I may or may not be able to attend; I'm more interested in getting this organized from a community perspective than leading the nerd raid)

Then it will just be a matter of projecting out spawns based on timers and setting up an agreed upon Vox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We are going to make this happen!

I personally would like to see bards getting epics over the scale being sold every time. Since that's the only real reason to go for vox really.

Nagafen is obviously a whole different story since he has a bladestopper and prayers.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Pan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's clearly both. Hence my suggestion (ensure that it gets into the hands of those whose guilds aren't Naggy/Vox capable - or unguilded). And hope that people are honorable about it if we (collectively) decide to do it that way (IF we can agree to do it at all, here).

Cloki is the guy I'd trust to run it expertly and fairly. Omni have always been good like that ^^

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I spent more than a few months in a fairly popular/successful "casual" raid guild that operates right now on p99. I seen firsthand how they were all over golems and how they drooled over getting tears that were looted solely for MQs.

I can say from experience, I watched how the inner circle of that guild got most, and fringe guild members got what slowly trickled down.

Which guild was this? I'm interested to know.

[Culkasi]

Originally Posted by Breaken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Serious commitment? That is Eratani's alt, though some people have access to it. The statement I made yesterday holds true. We have batphoned/killed 2 Lord Nagafens in 3.5 months.

How many has CSG done?

Think we've maybe done 1-2 Naggy this year - I admit we have been doing a lot of Vox though, them white scales.

[titanshub]

I think Kittens would be agreeable to something like this as long as its fair. Personally, I'd like to see a proper clear and classic'esque engage from the entrance. If nobody is competing then bringing in level 60's to clear it is cheese. Show people the zone, let them fall in the pit if they don't pay attention and give them a proper raid instead of a gear farm. This type of stuff is good for the server. Anything that makes people (raiders) take a step back and realize that this is just a video game is generally a positive thing.

However, Kittens do not have raid forum access so discussing it there means we either have to have our input posted for us or we get to just agree / disagree to whatever everyone else decides on. It would be nice to see someone just create a discord server and give every guild 2 or 3 invites.

[raato]

Originally Posted by Breaken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here in lies the old debate. Why does it matter who rolls/wins the loot? The casual guilds argue that the aren't given the opportunity to see dragons, but then loot is an issue. Well, which is it? Is it the encounter or the loot? I've long known it's both, but many won't admit that.

Like Cloki already said, its clearly both.

But far more important thing than loot or experiencing the encounters for atleast many CSG members and all of the CSG leadership is how we treat and respect each others when playing in the same box. That is why CSG has used petition only as last resort when "top dogs" behaviour and attitude has not changed better or has dramatically changed worse towards the others playing in the same box and competing for the same targets. And that is why CSG often does not batphone targets they find up and contested by smaller raid entities. And that is why CSG never kills any targets to sell the loots.

For example I have refused to take CT loots as concede from Aftermath after they trained us first and then killed CT (which would have caused AM to get suspended if they hadn't offered the loots) to get in rule changes instead to make it a bit less easy to break the rules and just concede to avoid suspension when get caught. And getting the people who are leading the guilds responsible for their guilds actions.

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Removed: All bits dictating what a concession must be, and all bits stating that they must be accepted.

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Other: Added "Please remember that Guild Leaders and/or officers may be held accountable (with personal account suspensions on any/all of their characters) for any actions of their guild members, in addition to any other actions that may be taken by the Staff. It is therefore the responsibility of the Guild Leadership to ensure that all guild members abide by these (and all server) rules.". This is mostly the same thing from the Server Rules (here: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=132299), but I want to make sure it is seen in both threads, and so players understand this also applies to raid infractions.

[Breaken]

Originally Posted by Pan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's clearly both. Hence my suggestion (ensure that it gets into the hands of those whose guilds aren't Naggy/Vox capable - or unguilded). And hope that people are honorable about it if we (collectively) decide to do it that way (IF we can agree to do it at all, here).

My point is that you will not be able to control this. Some random unguilded toon will roll and you will not know his affiliation. The question is, does it matter? The point of this open raid is to experience the encounter and have a chance at loot. The same as that unguilded guy that might have an affiliation with a larger guild. Whether it A/A/CSG/PS (they killed Gozzrem and I am sure they do some Vox?) .. As I stated, Awakened has done 1 Vox in over 3 months. Why are you going to deny them a roll on something their guild does not go for?

I don't care what you guys do with your open Vox raid, Awakened is not going to just start batphoning Vox more because of it... But, I am speaking from a logistical stand point. Assume we get to the point where *every* Lady Vox is an open raid. Would you not allow big guilds to join and roll?

[Culkasi]

Originally Posted by Breaken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Assume we get to the point where *every* Lady Vox is an open raid. Would you not allow big guilds to join and roll?

If we get to that point, I would say yes, but with the understanding that bards needing epics roll for the white scale, not someone wanting to flip it in EC - and btw, for the "big guilds" there is still Gore, which I know everyone still goes for, and has a very similar (if not better) loot table