Someone Translate this wall of text from Omni

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did say that, but I didn't say all live servers had lower population, I said "many" did. Based on the screenshots I've seen of live servers back when population numbers were published (and from the closer-to-Luclin end) that seemed to be true, but I won't swear I'm an expert on live population numbers or anything.

Regardless, if you kept the rest of that sentence you'd see that I also listed two other factors, one of which (the high density of top-level characters) I indicated was far more significant. So please don't get lost in the weeds: we all know that P99's population is uniquely top-heavy relative to live, that that impacts our raid scene, and that we have to be honest about it if we want the best raid scene possible.

But really, if the worst thing about the argument I made was that one minor supporting point was off, that says great things about my argument overall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*wearing Erati mask*: you're

[jpetrick]

On my server during classic there was competition. Is your classic experience is more valuable than mine?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by jpetrick [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On my server during classic there was competition. Is your classic experience is more valuable than mine?

This isn't a "which is more classic" competition ... although it it was, I honestly think the argument is stronger for rotations being classic than the FTE messages and the rest of the P99 "competition" system (which never existed on any live servers, whereas rotations absolutely did on some).

I'm trying to have a simple debate/discussion, and I massively appreciate the people willing to have it. That discussion is simple:

"_________ is the best raid system for Project 1999 overall, because _______".

The only way classic-ness factors in is that A) Rogean/Nilbog will never implement any solution that's truly un-classic (eg. instances), and B) all else being equal this is a classic server and so a "more classic" solution is preferable ... but again there's nothing classic about the current competition on P99.

[bthomsen0312]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't a "which is more classic" competition ... although it it was, I honestly think the argument is stronger for rotations being classic than the FTE messages and the rest of the P99 "competition" system (which never existed on any live servers, whereas rotations absolutely did on some).

There was not a single guild on live that was rotating current content.

zero
zilch
none
nada

P99 guilds also allow "bottom tier" classes to attend raids in large numbers which wouldn't have happened on live. If you were in a top end guild you were useful or you were cut.

Currently on "repop day" there are 3 guilds (and maybe more) that are going to be for sure functionally locked in and getting loot in TOV

Core
AM
AG

These guys COMPETE against each other which allows smaller guilds like PS and BG etc to steal some smaller fries (see CS dragon)

If I'm AM and I'm locked out of TOV for 4 weeks how do you think those smaller guilds like BG and PS are going to fair when AM is sitting around waiting for their "rotation". They won't have anything else to do other than kill smaller targets and they have the resources and toons to be parked everywhere if they don't need to worry about a vulak pop.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by bthomsen0312 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I'm AM and I'm locked out of TOV for 4 weeks how do you think those smaller guilds like BG and PS are going to fair when AM is sitting around waiting for their "rotation". They won't have anything else to do other than kill smaller targets and they have the resources and toons to be parked everywhere if they don't need to worry about a vulak pop.

I thought they were going to be joining other guilds so the can kill in ToV with their alts? Which is it?!? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[bthomsen0312]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought they were going to be joining other guilds so the can kill in ToV with their alts? Which is it?!? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's hilarious that you continue to ask people why, and when they give a very thorough explanation as to why you continue to dodge the answer with false arguments from people who didn't even make them. Not once did I talk about alts. The simple fact of the matter is rotating the top end content will either

A. starve bigger guilds of loot ending up with 900 guilds
or
B. cause said bigger guilds to go after EVERY middle tier target that isn't in TOV resulting in guys like BG and PS to never get much of anything done.

It's a bad idea and there's a reason why this server and not any one of the instanced or rotated servers are as popular as this one is. Exclusivity, whether you like to admit it or not, is a driving human factor here.


It boils down to it sucks to suck Loramin and hopefully the tendies don't get cold while you forum warrior

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by bthomsen0312 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There was not a single guild on live that was rotating current content.

zero
zilch
none
nada

P99 guilds also allow "bottom tier" classes to attend raids in large numbers which wouldn't have happened on live. If you were in a top end guild you were useful or you were cut.

Currently on "repop day" there are 3 guilds (and maybe more) that are going to be for sure functionally locked in and getting loot in TOV

Core
AM
AG

These guys COMPETE against each other which allows smaller guilds like PS and BG etc to steal some smaller fries (see CS dragon)

If I'm AM and I'm locked out of TOV for 4 weeks how do you think those smaller guilds like BG and PS are going to fair when AM is sitting around waiting for their "rotation". They won't have anything else to do other than kill smaller targets and they have the resources and toons to be parked everywhere if they don't need to worry about a vulak pop.

Please keep track of the 7 day mobs won by guilds other than those 3 this week and let me know how different it will be.

[Kayso2]

Originally Posted by bthomsen0312 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There was not a single guild on live that was rotating current content.

zero
zilch
none
nada

P99 guilds also allow "bottom tier" classes to attend raids in large numbers which wouldn't have happened on live. If you were in a top end guild you were useful or you were cut.

Currently on "repop day" there are 3 guilds (and maybe more) that are going to be for sure functionally locked in and getting loot in TOV

Core
AM
AG

These guys COMPETE against each other which allows smaller guilds like PS and BG etc to steal some smaller fries (see CS dragon)

If I'm AM and I'm locked out of TOV for 4 weeks how do you think those smaller guilds like BG and PS are going to fair when AM is sitting around waiting for their "rotation". They won't have anything else to do other than kill smaller targets and they have the resources and toons to be parked everywhere if they don't need to worry about a vulak pop.

My server absolutely did rotate current content. And they absolutely had multiple HIE paladins, assling druids, and human necros on raids.

That said, none of that matters. What makes this server so different from live is each server only had 1-2 guilds with enough leveled (or AA'd) toons even capable of killing the top current content at any time.

Given a week of little or no competition we have at least 6 guilds capable of killing every single mob in ToV and several more who could do most of the mobs.

Natural outcome of so many years in Kunark and Velious.

Also, nothing is inherently not competitive about rotated ToV. Since there are certain guilds who love competition so much (and totally aren't just in it for the pixels), on their week they can just split up into 4 teams and compete against each other. It is all about the competition, right?

[enjchanter]

The point is that having pixels that are difficult to get and no every joe shmo has is why competition is desired.


A perspective

I do not enjoy the raid scene whatsoever but I'd like some inherently difficult to receive pixels because receiving pixels is cool and enjoyable for me

[bthomsen0312]

Originally Posted by Kayso2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My server absolutely did rotate current content. And they absolutely had multiple HIE paladins, assling druids, and human necros on raids.

I would love to know what server this was - because raiding was hyper competitive with tons of trash talking from every server that I remember.