monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[Raralith]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can use the linked post above to check TStaff's potential damage output:

46 weapon damage from the 2h in the linked post above divided by 29 weapon damage from TStaff is 1.58. The 221 max damage from the weapon example in the linked post above divided by 1.58 is 139.87.

(9 + 139.87) / 2 = 74.4 x 0.5 = 37.2 + 29 damage bonus = 66.2 damage

66.2 damage x 30 hits = 1986 damage compared to 2072 damage at least from FoN + Gharns. That damage value is a bit lower due to gharns having a slightly better ratio. I am also assuming a 50% dual wield chance, for the 2072 number, but it sounds like Monks have a higher dual wield chance than 50%. That would further increase the 2072 damage if true.

As you can see, you don't need a 1h weapon with a delay of 12 to out DPS a TStaff.

Assuming the numbers check out, a 2hb tstaff is 1,986 damage vs. Tunare + Vulak weapons are 2,072 damage ignoring procs on both ends and stats you gain. A 50k 2hb from KC vs two incredibly hard to obtain BIS does 4.3% more damage? I'm assuming that doesn't even factor in 2HB weaving? As a new monk player, unless I'm the 1%, I'm basically keeping my 2HB for the vast majority of fights because it'll be more DPS? That just sounds incredibly odd.

[PatChapp]

Originally Posted by Raralith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Assuming the numbers check out, a 2hb tstaff is 1,986 damage vs. Tunare + Vulak weapons are 2,072 damage ignoring procs on both ends and stats you gain. A 50k 2hb from KC vs two incredibly hard to obtain BIS does 4.3% more damage? I'm assuming that doesn't even factor in 2HB weaving? As a new monk player, unless I'm the 1%, I'm basically keeping my 2HB for the vast majority of fights because it'll be more DPS? That just sounds incredibly odd.

2hb is better dps, if your comparing 1%er stuff abashi is going to outdps fon+gains.
If your comparing regular folk weapons,1h do not compare to a fist weaved ifs or even a peacebringer

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2hb is better dps, if your comparing 1%er stuff abashi is going to outdps fon+gains.
If your comparing regular folk weapons,1h do not compare to a fist weaved ifs or even a peacebringer

Thats not to say dw doesn’t work. It does and it works well. It is just 2h works far better. Such is the blessed nature of the monk.

[Goregasmic]

This thread turned into what all threads on here look like. "I'm level 16 what should I do?" "Get gharn's and COL and call it a day".

So if I'm not mistaken, using attainable weapons for most people:

Epic fist = (9x2+11)/16 = 1.8125
SoS = (17x2)/28 = 1.2143 × 0.70 (30%* DW miss rate) = 0.85
1.8125 + 0.85 = 2.6625

IFS = (38x2+34**)/40 = 2.75

*couldn't find a confirmed number
**using IFS dmg bonus someone previously mentionned

2HB still wins over epic which the latter is definitely much harder to get than an IFS. 2handers also have a couple of advantages over 1handers anyway, especially for monks, so it isn't a win by a landslide but it is still a clear winner all factors considered. If you like 1H better it isn' like you're at a terrible disadvantage either in most situations but your mainhand pick matters a lot.

Now you could argue that some very high end 1h tilt the scale on a handful of mobs but I've been playing in end game non raid zones and I've seen a lot more monks using epic+SOS or AC+SOS than anything else. I understand there might be a sample bias there but for these guys and particularly OP that's basically all you'd need to know until access to raid weapons especially considering 1h offhands don't fire double attack until DW>150 IIRC so until then 2HB wins even more.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As you can see, you don't need a 1h weapon with a delay of 12 to out DPS a TStaff.

Are you stupid or just careless in your reading comprehension? I’m hoping you’re just so excited to get to your rebuttal that your glaze over posts as you read them.

Either that or you are, sincerely, unintelligent.

What I actually said was that you need a mainhand DELAY of 11 on a level 60 to beat the DAMAGE BONUS potential of a mainhand DELAY of 30 for a 2 handed weapon.

Jesus Christ in a top hat …

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you stupid or just careless in your reading comprehension? I’m hoping you’re just so excited to get to your rebuttal that your glaze over posts as you read them.

Either that or you are, sincerely, unintelligent.

What I actually said was that you need a mainhand DELAY of 11 on a level 60 to beat the DAMAGE BONUS potential of a mainhand DELAY of 30 for a 2 handed weapon.

Jesus Christ in a top hat …

I read it fine. Your point about 11 delay weapons is irrelevant, and I showed why. You simply need to math out the DPS difference between weapons if you want the correct answer. It isn't more complex than that. As you say, the math isn't complicated.

You are just making yourself look foolish, like you always do. Hopefully one day you will realize trolling and insulting others simply hurts your credibity. It doesn't affect me at all.

[Troxx]

You either didn’t read it or you didn’t understand it.

Damage bonus favors 2handers. When choosing what weapon to use it used to be that for high ac raid targets you wanted fast weapons for damage bonus application. It USED to be that lower ratio fast 1 handers could beat out superior ratio 2 handers.

Now it is the opposite. Damage bonus numbers ALWAYS favor 2handed now.

So .. now you need massive ratio advantages to make the DW setup (ie BiS gharns and FoN) preferable to a tradable weapon that drops in KC. Hell … you more or less did the math to prove what I said was right.

/golfclap

You didn’t actually read (or understand) what I literally wrote:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...4&postcount=97

Try reading it again halfwit.

Now run your math for the raid 2hb equivalent. Quit using primal as the alternative- nobody uses that shit after it procs:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Abashi%...Disempowerment
https://wiki.project1999.com/Bo_Staff_of_Trorsmang
https://wiki.project1999.com/Shovel_of_the_Harvest
https://wiki.project1999.com/Facesmasher

There are several to choose from. If you have BiS dual wield available to you … you can get these instead or as well.

Quit comparing gharn/FoN to commonlands tunnel garbage

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Troxx still doesn't understand the best way to figure out which weapons deal more damage is to math it out and/or parse it. He prefers generalizations which don't always apply. If he read my previous posts, he would know that none of his assumptions about what he thinks I said or read are true.

Troxx has reading comprehension issues, and projects them on to other people. Or it's just part of his trolling routine. He could simply agree that parsing and math is more accurate than generalizations, but he just always wants to be correct. It's sad.

[PatChapp]

Your calculations aren't very accurate either, as you didn't add fist weaving into the 2hb calcs
Any monk trying to maximize 2hb dmg will be fist weaving.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your calculations aren't very accurate either, as you didn't add fist weaving into the 2hb calcs
Any monk trying to maximize 2hb dmg will be fist weaving.

I was also assuming a 50% dual wield chance, but I believe Monks have a higher dual wield chance than that. Will test it later. A 75% dual wield chance would offset fistweaving in my previous examples. Fist weaving would give you 15 hits with a 9 damage weapon when using TStaff and epic, vs. 12 hits from a 16 damage gharns when looking at a 75% dual wield chance.