Enchanter is #1 solo class? What is this madness

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IDK, Loramine, I think several of us have touched on the fact it is an inaccurate reconstruction / simulation of a game.

In fact, this realising this from the above post is why I degenerated into baseless whimsical nostalgia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]



Thank you.

Sorry, I was only talking to a few people in the thread, and certainly not "everyone", so my use of the word was a bit rhetorical. I should have said something more like "everyone who thinks they are geniuses who are smarter than live players" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Snaggles]

I’m not a genius. I sure know more than I did 25 years ago. I’d love to illustrate how dumb I was 25 years ago but as this is my evolved form…just use your imagination.

By my understanding there are three through-lines of logic here:

1.) The elf sim we pay $0 for is not 100% accurate to the original. There is some evidence to this, like how some mobs are overtuned on p99 (Sontalak) and resists are not nearly as effective (level 60 255Mr vs dragon roar on Faydedar). Loramin is super serious about how Enchanters should be worse so sure, he can have it I guess.

2.) The Bell Curve for performance on p99, Quarm, TAKP, etc is much higher than live 25 years ago. There is some evidence to what we have accomplished at this progression with some non-classic item nerfs or simply the amount of geared/leveled chars we have on average. When you apply heat to something, it refines the final product.

3.). There is a difference of knowledge and technology giving 2025 EQ players a distinct advantage. Duh.

I’m not saying one is true, and others are false. These are all variables at play and outside our control. I’m also dont care if “a class has a distinct advantage” over another (the world isn’t fair) unless we are locked from playing that class by a paywall.

I main a ranger on p99 and despite my many other “better” classes, I would delete them all to keep the one with an inferiority complex. When you aren’t the best, nobody assumes you will be. You have to work harder so there isn’t time to cry about things not being fair. When you do accomplish something remarkable though, you can’t beat that win [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m not saying one is true, and others are false.

Agreed (with the whole post). Look, obviously there are going to be multiple reasons why X is different here vs. live, and not all of them are going to be "because our emulator is inaccurate".

I just think it's undeniable that one (and only one) class was viewed incredibly differently in '99-'01 vs. how it's viewed here ... and that the goal of this place should be to let people experience classic EQ.

I do disagree with this though:

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m also dont care if “a class has a distinct advantage” over another (the world isn’t fair) unless we are locked from playing that class by a paywall.

I came here after playing on live and got to re-live the classic Shaman experience. Sure there were differences (eg. I remember being shocked when LOIO goblins cast serious spells on me), but almost everything was the same. It was incredible to get to have that experience again!

By making Enchanters an unclasic easy version of themselves, Nilbog is denying all those players that same experience. The harm isn't "other classes might get jealous", the harm is that 1/14th of our population (probably more since the class is so popular) are missing out on classic EQ.

P.S. I truly want to main an Enchanter in Green 2.0 ... but I want the real thing, not the easy version!

[Tann]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By making Enchanters an unclasic easy version of themselves, Nilbog is denying all those players that same experience. The harm isn't "other classes might get jealous", the harm is that 1/14th of our population (probably more since the class is so popular) are missing out on classic EQ.

P.S. I truly want to main an Enchanter in Green 2.0 ... but I want the real thing, not the easy version!

The thing is, this line of thinking is all based on how some people remember enchanters from back in the day.

I played a bard back in the day so I can't really speak for how they were. But i can say that they're strong here, but also strong on takp, quarm, THJ, and the TLPs.. a pattern perhaps? Class is just OP in all eras. Praise EQ for not having every class just different flavors of the same crap like games nowadays.

Example: back in the early days of WoW, raids were loaded with hunters because they all thought it was one of the top dps classes. Gotta get that legendary bow cause look at that dps!!! Fast forward to all the emu servers and then wow classic where it was like 90% warriors topping the meters and like 1 hunter per raid team. The game itself didn't change, people's knowledge did.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Example: back in the early days of WoW, raids were loaded with hunters because they all thought it was one of the top dps classes. Gotta get that legendary bow cause look at that dps!!! Fast forward to all the emu servers and then wow classic where it was like 90% warriors topping the meters and like 1 hunter per raid team. The game itself didn't change, people's knowledge did.

This is a very poor example that in reality makes the opposite point, because launch-era WoW was a very, very different game than the 1.12-based emulators and 2019 "classic." That game changed greatly. Didn't stop the 19'ers from convincing themselves otherwise though.

Similar issue on P99, you can very much see the difference between the folks who played original EQ and the players who either only played P99 or were little kids during the original era and consequently don't remember it very well.

[Goregasmic]

He still got a point though; you're never going to get classic back even if rogean makes it 100% accurate because people just know too much now. There were a lot more mages/wizards back then and you're never going to see that again. Same for most class population, they'll shift one way or another. Gear preferences and ZEM greatly changed the zone meta too. People didn't know about legacy items/pre-nerfs because they weren't nerfed/removed yet. It is never going to be the same again.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The thing is, this line of thinking is all based on how some people remember enchanters from back in the day.

We have the exact classic data:

Spells are supposed to be resisted/break more frequently than they do now, and Charm even more so if you're not at least 11 levels higher than the thing you're charming.

Lull is supposed to be trash and literally never work on high level targets.

These are massive things, and channeling also being slightly overpowered on p99 (at high levels; it's severely overpowered at the lower levels compared to classic) adds a further layer of difference. There's also little things like pets dual wielding when being given a torch (unclassic) that make a difference.

Enchanters are still the best class in the game if given classic coding, and even with worse internet and hardware people were recognizing it by mid/late 2000. They should be less God-like though.

[Potus]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's also little things like pets dual wielding when being given a torch (unclassic) that make a difference.

I was wondering why this bug was still around. Torches TURNED OFF dual wielding in 1999; everyone carried around bags of FS daggers.

[Snaggles]

It’s very possible to emulate OG gameplay.

Enchanters can avoid tashing and giving their pets -MR gear. Don’t rune yourself and don’t wear CHA gear. Maybe give your pet +MR. Don’t torch them if you feel that’s too P99.

There you go, cue up the Papa Roach and randomly click off the internet.

PS: not aiming this at anyone. Been musing on it for a bit and finally got to post it, lol.

[Duik]

There you go, cue up the Papa Roach and randomly click off the internet.

I had super shit dialup. This literally me.