Comparison of melee hybrid classes.

[beentheredonethat]

i played a ranger to 40 something back in classic (live). It was a lot of fun actually, I was dual wielding. All the fun utility spells that I wanted, at 39 you get sow too, which is finally nice to no longer beg for.

Never played a paladin, can't comment. They seem fun though.

[Graym]

Originally Posted by canardvc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't been as lazy as Lethdar. You can start reading from this page on for much fun. There's like 10 pages of it

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorp...x-emu-103.html

Arguments with James are always fun. The only reason James was even a member of Twelve Prophets is because he was real life friends with Taelon, one of the leaders in the guild. In fact, it's a MAIN REASON the guild split up because so many people hated James but nobody could do shit about it because of Taelon.

[Graym]

Originally Posted by Foxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

dispelling root is too hard

It's obviously not. The point is that root should not be an integral part of a PVP fight. Rather then understand it's a valid point, you choose to call me a "noob" for pointing out the stupidity of the pvp system you guys chose to use on that server.

[Darksinga]

it is if your an earth elemental pet is on you and you're a pure melee. Or if you get sup stunned ;p

[Graym]

Since people seem to be surprised that the interrupt was so high, I actually went and found an archive of a developer chat discussing interrupts here.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...p/t-14831.html

Relevant developer responses:

For the purposes of channeling, kick is basically a bash. It just has a flat (high) chance to interrupt casting. Channeling doesn't get used when kicked. No change here.

Question:

If I get hit by a normal swing and movement takes place I have to make 2 channeling checks one for the hit and one for the movement it generates?

Developer Response:

Not quite. If you move more than what is allowed, you just fail the cast. No channeling check takes place there. Moving too much during the casting process simply interrupts your spell unless you're a bard. If you didn't move far enough for it to matter, then you'd make the channeling roll to see if you continue casting. Again, no change here.

Question:

I also have another question each hit generates a channeling check so if a mob quads on me and hits me 4 times. I know make 4 channeling check vs each hit and a channeling check vs the movement they generated? So my chance of passing any one check is 90%, but the chance of passing all 4 is what 64% or something. Going to be hard to channel spell if 2 or 3 mobs hit you that for sure.

Developer Response:

Correct, for each hit you take, you make the roll. The more you're getting hit, the harder it is to continue casting a spell.

Question:

I also trust Prathun's description of movement interrupts; I'm surprised, though, because it's inconsistent with my anecdotal experience of a more probabilistic thing. That is, he says it's "X distance = interrupt," whereas my experience has seemed... softer. You move a little, maybe you get interrupted, maybe not. You move a lot, odds are, interrupt. You run in a big circle and come right back, and if you're close enough, you just might channel. How big is X distance, anyway?

Developer Response:

You're right. I just took another look at it and there is some wiggle room in there. If you move more than a few inches, but less than what it takes to automatically break the spell (which is about 1 foot), you get a channeling check to keep the spell. So to answer the other person's question, if you moved a little, but not enough to automatically lose the spell, and got hit at the same time, that would be two channeling checks you'd have to succeed to keep the spell. That'd be why sticking your back up against a wall helps you get spells off easier.

Which is exactly what I've been saying and that last developer quote is why. A spell has a 100% rate of interruption if the character is moved too far during casting which Rangers and their very fast hits, routinely did. My interrupt rate pre-Kunark was not as high as it was in Kunark but it was still very high. Enough so that no caster would stand still and try to channel. That also doesn't take into account levitation, which increased the rate of interrupt considerably. In fact, based on where on the terrain you were, on occasion you could get an interrupt while levitating without even moving your character during the cast. The absolute worst place in game to try to cast a spell was underwater with ridiculously high levels of interrupts because of the character movement.

[Nirgon]

Funny, I remember on live that you could start a cast in a corner, run all over the place and it would cast just fine when you returned to the corner with no message of regaining concentration.

In b4 no.

[Graym]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Funny, I remember on live that you could start a cast in a corner, run all over the place and it would cast just fine when you returned to the corner with no message of regaining concentration.

In b4 no.

Yeah, depending on how far you ran away and how close you got to the exact spot that you started the cast then yes, it is true. However, there was definitely a limit to how far you could move before it interrupted. More importantly, it has absolutely nothing to do with PVP because getting moved by being hit forces another channeling check from the hit itself in addition to the movement.

On very rare occasion I saw it done on the live PVP servers but the interrupt rate was still ridiculously high, high enough that it wasn't worth trying it. Usually when casters tried it, it was for a spell like Gate as they were trying to get out just before dying.

[Bockscar]

It all has to do with the /loc you're at when you start and finish the cast. That's why you can get off a spell even if you run around while actually casting it, as long as you finish it in the exact same spot you started. When in a corner, that's pretty easy because you're guaranteed to be in the same spot. You can start casting CH in a corner, frolick around like a French person for nine seconds, and then squeeze back into the corner just before the spell finishes. It'll always work, assuming you do it right. Anyone with a bit of smarts will just go and stand in that corner so you can't get back to the same loc to finish the cast, of course.

You could theoretically do it without a corner, but the odds of hitting the exact same loc by sheer aim are pretty much nil. You can occasionally get close enough that it allows a channeling check, but it's not consistent enough to be worth trying in any serious situation. You can also cast certain very fast spells like Yaulp while running at base speed, because the spell is so fast that you don't run far enough during its cast to guarantee failure. It just gives you a really difficult channeling check instead.

What you can easily do to counter melee pushback is take a tap-step towards the attacker. With a bit of practice and attentiveness, you can usually negate most of the push and get an easier channeling check.

[Graym]

Originally Posted by Bockscar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It all has to do with the /loc you're at when you start and finish the cast. That's why you can get off a spell even if you run around while actually casting it, as long as you finish it in the exact same spot you started. When in a corner, that's pretty easy because you're guaranteed to be in the same spot. You can start casting CH in a corner, frolick around like a French person for nine seconds, and then squeeze back into the corner just before the spell finishes. It'll always work, assuming you do it right. Anyone with a bit of smarts will just go and stand in that corner so you can't get back to the same loc to finish the cast, of course.

You could theoretically do it without a corner, but the odds of hitting the exact same loc by sheer aim are pretty much nil. You can occasionally get close enough that it allows a channeling check, but it's not consistent enough to be worth trying in any serious situation. You can also cast certain very fast spells like Yaulp while running at base speed, because the spell is so fast that you don't run far enough during its cast to guarantee failure. It just gives you a really difficult channeling check instead.

What you said is correct, but there is a distinct difference between trying this in PVE and PVP.

1) PVP has additional channeling checks from the hits / damage and the damage by itself can cause interrupts.
2) A caster using Levitate, which a lot of casters do in PVP, increases the odds of an interrupt from additional movement.
3) Standing in the corner and trying to channel spells through melee is not a viable PVP strategy so we can assume 99.9% of PVP will involve a random location where it is hard to find the exact spot and not simply a corner as in your test situation.
4) The interrupt rate also increases with higher level spells. The higher the level of the spell, the more likely it will be interrupted.

Originally Posted by Bockscar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you can easily do to counter melee pushback is take a tap-step towards the attacker. With a bit of practice and attentiveness, you can usually negate most of the push and get an easier channeling check.

This is where I will disagree with you and Foxx. Casters who stood still and tried to channel spells against me were the easiest kills. Yes, moving forward to counter the push is theoretically your best chance at channeling the spell however the interrupt rate is STILL HIGH enough that it's a losing strategy. Your risk is the damage you took while trying to cast the spell, and potential reward is if you actually channel the spell through the two checks. More often then not, the spell will still get interrupted and you took heavy damage trying to cast. It might not be the 100% interrupt rate people who get moved too far get, but it's still high enough that this is a losing strategy. As I posted, the ONLY TIME this was used was when someone was in a desperate situation and needed to try to channel something like a gate before they died or get off a heal on a groupmate. While Foxx likes to think this meant "skill" in PVP, the reality is the opposite, this strategy is something to be aware of for when you need to get off that desperate gate, but not something to do on a regular basis as you're implying. It's something that sounds good to people who probably never played on a PVP server, but you wouldn't find too many casters doing that on the old school Zek servers.

It simply makes far more sense, if you are getting hit early on in your cast, to cancel the cast and run away so you can try to lose the melee chasing you long enough to get the cast off without getting hit. Why risk your health in order to have a low chance at channeling a spell? It's a losing strategy. The whole point was simply to show how interrupts are calculated which helps to explain why Rangers had such high interrupt rates. It wasn't just the hits / damage, but the additional interruption caused by constantly moving your opponent during their cast.

[dogbarf]

Kick was only ever a bash for warriors. Rangers kick didn't interrupt for shit.