Ragefire Agreement/Rotation

[relapsee69]

For a cleric that has lost 3 pearls and has had to redo the cleric epic quest 3 times due to 'spam clicking'. You are crazy if you do not support this start of a server wide rotation. Instead of divinity and others shiting up this thread. Suggestions on how to better the agreement for all clerics should be the main goal.

My suggestion is Ib and VD raid naggy together. So we should share that ragefire. While tmo does naggy on their own they have their own ragefire. Which would leave that 3rd spot now for divinity/bda/taken. Each raid force would have from naggy to naggy to kill however many ragefires spawned that week.

[Jomar]

Originally Posted by relapsee69 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My suggestion is Ib and VD raid naggy together. So we should share that ragefire. While tmo does naggy on their own they have their own ragefire. Which would leave that 3rd spot now for divinity/bda/taken. Each raid force would have from naggy to naggy to kill however many ragefires spawned that week.

I'm not sure I agree with this. TMO doesn't even really attempt Nagafen anymore (they have two kills over the last three months), so they're basically in the same boat as BDA/Divinity/Taken when it comes to spawning their "own" Ragefire. Yet they get their own Nagafen/Ragefire cycle, while VD is bundled in with IB despite having killed Nagafen solo several times over the last three months.

My suggestion would be as follows:
a) five Clerics in the original post get their Ragefires.
b) a Cleric of VD gets the following one.
c) a Cleric of TMO gets the one after that.
d) a Cleric of VD gets the last one before a rotation begins.
e) assuming the Ragefire patch is in place, we determine the next three Ragefire weeks via a roll-off between BDA/Divinity/Taken. After their roll-off determines the order, each guild must then kill Lord Nagafen within six hours of spawning by themselves in-order to officially lay "claim" to their week of Ragefires. After the first three weeks are up, the next three weeks would go in order of VD, TMO, and finally IB.

If a guild is unable to successfully kill Nagafen in their six-hour window, their place in line is lost for good. The next guild in line would then have two hours to kill Nagafen, and if they were to fail, they would still retain their spot in line, but would lose out on the possibility of moving up a week in the rotation. And then of course since the second guild failed, the next guild in line would have two hours to kill Nagafen and take over the original guild's Ragefire week. Once a guild begins their week, they are removed from the line until the next rotation is decided in another agreement (or Ragefire becomes open season).

That's about all I have. It's pretty straight-forward and, in my opinion, pretty fair to all parties involved. BDA/Div/Taken does not have to respect the agreement in the original post made by Elethia, but this would give them incentive to do so as, after their Ragefire weeks, they could all have just as many Cleric epics as IB/TMO/VD. Venom/Acryid could be included in the next agreement (if one is made), but for now they are left out as they have not really shown that they are capable of successfully killing a raid target such as Nagafen/Ragefire on their own. The last three weeks go in order of VD-TMO-IB because at the start of the rotation, VD would have two epics, TMO would have three, while IB would have four.

[Metallikus]

Originally Posted by Jomar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure I agree with this. TMO doesn't even really attempt Nagafen anymore (they have two kills over the last three months), so they're basically in the same boat as BDA/Divinity/Taken when it comes to spawning their "own" Ragefire. Yet they get their own Nagafen/Ragefire cycle, while VD is bundled in with IB despite having killed Nagafen solo several times over the last three months.

My suggestion would be as follows:
a) five Clerics in the original post get their Ragefires.
b) a Cleric of VD gets the following one.
c) a Cleric of TMO gets the one after that.
d) a Cleric of VD gets the last one before a rotation begins.
e) assuming the Ragefire patch is in place, we determine the next three Ragefire weeks via a roll-off between BDA/Divinity/Taken. After their roll-off determines the order, each guild must then kill Lord Nagafen within six hours of spawning by themselves in-order to officially lay "claim" to their week of Ragefires. After the first three weeks are up, the next three weeks would go in order of VD, TMO, and finally IB.

If a guild is unable to successfully kill Nagafen in their six-hour window, their place in line is lost for good. The next guild in line would then have two hours to kill Nagafen, and if they were to fail, they would still retain their spot in line, but would lose out on the possibility of moving up a week in the rotation. And then of course since the second guild failed, the next guild in line would have two hours to kill Nagafen and take over the original guild's Ragefire week. Once a guild begins their week, they are removed from the line until the next rotation is decided in another agreement (or Ragefire becomes open season).

That's about all I have. It's pretty straight-forward and, in my opinion, pretty fair to all parties involved. BDA/Div/Taken does not have to respect the agreement in the original post made by Elethia, but this would give them incentive to do so as, after their Ragefire weeks, they could all have just as many Cleric epics as IB/TMO/VD. Venom/Acryid could be included in the next agreement (if one is made), but for now they are left out as they have not really shown that they are capable of successfully killing a raid target such as Nagafen/Ragefire on their own. The last three weeks go in order of VD-TMO-IB because at the start of the rotation, VD would have two epics, TMO would have three, while IB would have four..

Nothing out of line in that post

[Zereh]

~Doesn't~ kill and ~can't~ kill are worlds apart.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Jomar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(they have two kills over the last three months)

Epics haven't been out but for so long.


If Killing nagafen lays claim to the triggered ragefire mob and we go by the rule-set, TMO will definitely put Nagafen back on a top priority list.

There were reasons why we didn't push for him, there are reasons we would. I imagine IB feels the same way.

[Motec]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Epics haven't been out but for so long.


If Killing nagafen lays claim to the triggered ragefire mob and we go by the rule-set, TMO will definitely put Nagafen back on a top priority list.

There were reasons why we didn't push for him, there are reasons we would. I imagine IB feels the same way.

QFT right there. Naggy is perhaps my favorite raid, lets not make that a shitfight.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Jomar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure I agree with this. TMO doesn't even really attempt Nagafen anymore (they have two kills over the last three months), so they're basically in the same boat as BDA/Divinity/Taken when it comes to spawning their "own" Ragefire. Yet they get their own Nagafen/Ragefire cycle, while VD is bundled in with IB despite having killed Nagafen solo several times over the last three months.

My suggestion would be as follows:
a) five Clerics in the original post get their Ragefires.
b) a Cleric of VD gets the following one.
c) a Cleric of TMO gets the one after that.
d) a Cleric of VD gets the last one before a rotation begins.
e) assuming the Ragefire patch is in place, we determine the next three Ragefire weeks via a roll-off between BDA/Divinity/Taken. After their roll-off determines the order, each guild must then kill Lord Nagafen within six hours of spawning by themselves in-order to officially lay "claim" to their week of Ragefires. After the first three weeks are up, the next three weeks would go in order of VD, TMO, and finally IB.

If a guild is unable to successfully kill Nagafen in their six-hour window, their place in line is lost for good. The next guild in line would then have two hours to kill Nagafen, and if they were to fail, they would still retain their spot in line, but would lose out on the possibility of moving up a week in the rotation. And then of course since the second guild failed, the next guild in line would have two hours to kill Nagafen and take over the original guild's Ragefire week. Once a guild begins their week, they are removed from the line until the next rotation is decided in another agreement (or Ragefire becomes open season).

That's about all I have. It's pretty straight-forward and, in my opinion, pretty fair to all parties involved. BDA/Div/Taken does not have to respect the agreement in the original post made by Elethia, but this would give them incentive to do so as, after their Ragefire weeks, they could all have just as many Cleric epics as IB/TMO/VD. Venom/Acryid could be included in the next agreement (if one is made), but for now they are left out as they have not really shown that they are capable of successfully killing a raid target such as Nagafen/Ragefire on their own. The last three weeks go in order of VD-TMO-IB because at the start of the rotation, VD would have two epics, TMO would have three, while IB would have four.

The issue with this suggestion is that if variance were back at normal live levels (or any of the other suggestions in that other thread) the above wouldn't apply. You would likely get more TMO/Taken/BDA/Div competition for naggy and the rest and those left out of Ele's post would account for a far larger proportion of nag kills. This only addresses the issue of Ragefire and not the windows themselves and thus doesn't address the problem but rather a really small one within a specific situation. Outside of TMO/IB, I'm sure VD feels the same way I just described. It's not about Ragefire, it's about the windows to get to Ragefire that are the issue. Appealing to those not willing to poopsock but not dealing with the poopsock does nothing about poopsock.

[Sizzle]

damn 1%ers

[Lazortag]

What's up guys? Just because someone with a Divinity tag says something you disagree with is no reason to diss Divinity. No single member of the guild represents everyone in the guild, that would be ridiculous. Criticizing people for their guild affiliations is what people do when they can't come up with good arguments.

Elethia seems like a perfectly reasonable person and I doubt he/she was trying to offend anyone. I also disagree that he/she was ignoring guilds other than VD/IB/TMO because at the end of the original post it says:

...
Due to the nature of the Cleric epic and Ragefire spawn, it is required that Nagafen be killed in order for Ragefire to spawn. The three guilds currently in this rotation are looking at ways to incorporate other guilds/clerics into this agreement once the rotation becomes implemented. ... Thoughts and input are welcomed on this point.

The problem was that when someone asked how Taken/Div/BDA would enter into the rotation, the answers ranged from "you need to demonstrate that you're willing to poopsock", to "you have to kill Naggy", with the occasional jab at small guilds for supposedly being unskilled. Both of those requirements are completely stupid. If you need to demonstrate willingness to poopsock, then people will just poopsock, which is bad. So why not skip the poopsocking part and let people enter into the rotation randomly after the first five clerics from that list are done? No one is asking for welfare, we're asking to avoid an unnecessary time sink that doesn't require any skill or effort.

Basically I think if you've already devoted an insane amount of time to the camp, you should be prioritized. But an agreement should be set up to avoid people having to spend so much time on it in the future.

As for having to kill Naggy, let's be reasonable here - I'm pretty sure every raid guild on this server has killed Naggy. If demonstrating the "ability" to kill a mob is what mattered, we'd have been on a VS rotation a long time ago ;)

[Jarayador]

Out of curiosity, how many clerics in Taken/Divinity/BDA have pearls? How many will have pearls once the first-5 have their epics?