Please check my math on Troll vs Ogre Shaman

[sonofbaal]

Originally Posted by greenspectre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Barbarian, fuck the haters. Advantages as follows-

-Good race. Sell/bank/travel easier. Every 5 levels make a sojourn back to Everfrost to hang out with my barbarian brothers, get spells, ride a wooly mammoth, listen to people moan that Karg Icebear isn't up. Feelin' cute, might get ganked by Lich of Miragul while looking for the Glacier Bear, idk tho.

-Grobb as a hub for Guk runs is still doable. Already got my merchant faction up to Apprehensive and can ghetto-bank with merchants, too. Troll guards are also fixable, but I'm lazy. Fuck those shamans though and their "We don't believe in wolf-form" bullshit. Cabilis will also still be doable when Kunark releases. I'm thinking of building a summer home there.

-Fashionquest. I can't even begin to describe the amount of tail my huge rippling muscles and shiny totemic plate armor has gotten me so far. Darkelves, woodelves, fellow barbarian lasses as well all swoon at the sight of me as I SoW right on by. Don't need Glamour on to attract the ladies, and my armor doesn't look like it's held together with Innoruuk's Dental Floss. I have needed a STA buff on occasion to last those long nights, though. First world problems, I guess.

-I don't have to worry about the Troll vs Ogre debate if I am neither! Can just take big sips.

-If Loramin can solo the Seb Crypt then someday I can, too. Good enough for me!

hte virgin ogre/troll vs the chad barbarian

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by sonofbaal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hte virgin ogre/troll vs the chad barbarian

Lol gotta love it[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] At the end of the day all Shaman races can basically do the same thing. The question is always what do you prefer more: Extra benefits that help you recover from bad situations a bit better, or fashion. If you are lucky, you can get both! I personally love the way Ogres and Trolls look.

[peterpal]

Inspired by this discussion I started playing a troll shaman as I am usually a barbarian. And this is very small scale anecdotal evidence but I'm experiencing a lot of stuns from 2 to 5 stuns each combat easily. And I can see this making a big difference in the late game. But I'm also liking lower downtimes due to the troll regen

[Baler]

Originally Posted by peterpal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Inspired by this discussion I started playing a troll shaman as I am usually a barbarian. And this is very small scale anecdotal evidence but I'm experiencing a lot of stuns from 2 to 5 stuns each combat easily. And I can see this making a big difference in the late game. But I'm also liking lower downtimes due to the troll regen

What level are you, What are your skills. Not real questions.
Game starts at 60, Get your skills maxed.

Don't listen to people who tell you to melee to level up. Root Rot, then duo to 60.
Shaman is a priest class, these people are playing the wrong class.
I leveled my troll shaman in two weeks to 51, root rotting.

Comparing level 10 to level 60 is not comparable at all. You'll have different gear, spells, etc.
Don't start making assumptions that ogre will be any better while leveling. Even the brain dead ogre boys say troll leveling is better.

Troll is the defacto best shaman race. I hate this ogre brainwashing BS that this community has layered on so thick for years

Hope you picked innoruuk

[Sizar]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't listen to people who tell you to melee to level up. Root Rot

From 40ish to 60 sure yes do this, but it is soooo much more efficient on blue to melee till around 40. Like night and day. Shaman dots and nukes are quite mana inneficient so if you have a good beat stick it's much faster imo to slow, beat down, heal at end of fight and keep going. Baler you clearly know what your talking about when it comes to shamans but in this case I think you are just wrong.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Sizar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From 40ish to 60 sure yes do this, but it is soooo much more efficient on blue to melee till around 40. Like night and day. Shaman dots and nukes are quite mana inneficient so if you have a good beat stick it's much faster imo to slow, beat down, heal at end of fight and keep going. Baler you clearly know what your talking about when it comes to shamans but in this case I think you are just wrong.

I think it really depends on the mobs and your gear. Some stuff hits hard enough that your puny Shaman melee damage (even with haste, a proc weapon, etc.) just doesn't make up for the healing you have to do after. Some stuff doesn't hit so hard, and it's worth taking some hits in exchange for that melee DPS.

But of course this depends heavily on your gear. I started without especially good gear (I had a gift of a Barbarian Spiritist Hammer and a couple plat wedding rings, but otherwise was naked). I found I tended to start doing a lot more root/rotting in the late teens, but depending on what I was fighting I went back to meleeing at times. I definitely used my hammer plenty, and root/rotted plenty.

And then one other factor is your pet: it's your best DoT, but you can only use it if either you or the pet is tanking. That leads to a third option I took also: pet tanking. You still lose melee damage, but it can be nice if the mob casts or interrupts you a lot (or summons).

Ultimately I suspect you're both right and you just went to different hunting spots at different levels.

[sonofbaal]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What level are you, What are your skills. Not real questions.
Game starts at 60, Get your skills maxed.

Don't listen to people who tell you to melee to level up. Root Rot, then duo to 60.
Shaman is a priest class, these people are playing the wrong class.
I leveled my troll shaman in two weeks to 51, root rotting.

Comparing level 10 to level 60 is not comparable at all. You'll have different gear, spells, etc.
Don't start making assumptions that ogre will be any better while leveling. Even the brain dead ogre boys say troll leveling is better.

Troll is the defacto best shaman race. I hate this ogre brainwashing BS that this community has layered on so thick for years

Hope you picked innoruuk

51 in 2 weeks?

jesus those poor socks

[fastboy21]

You're going about asking the wrong question. The numbers are insignificant, in and of themselves. What matters is how they are applied. Specifically, the right question to ask is: "is there any content I wish to do on my shaman that is made harder or impossible due to a statistically significant advantage of one shaman race over another?"

In high end gear I do not believe there is any such content. There may be a slight advantage for ogre, especially head to head in less than high end gear in the mid/late 50s game on some solo content, especially in velious...but I've never heard anyone say damn I bet I could have won that fight if I had rolled ogre instead of troll...b/c it doesn't happen much, if ever.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

1-40 meleeing is more mana efficient than root rotting, especially on Blue when you have access to cheap, good ratio weapons like:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Poison_Wind_Censer
https://wiki.project1999.com/Granite_Face_Grinder
https://wiki.project1999.com/Exquisi...um_Brawl_Stick

Shaman DoTs have bad DPM at lower levels, and spell resists hurt a lot mana wise.

With meleeing, you just need to haste yourself, heal yourself, slow, maybe malo, and only root at the end when the mob is running. You reduce how many spells you need to cast, and you reduce how many spell resists you get. This is because you are healing yourself, instead of attacking the mob with DoTs. You are also not rooting as much. Lower level roots have a smaller duration, and random root breaks occur. Mobs don't do a ton of damage levels 1-40, so the damage you take while slow tanking is pretty efficient.

Once you hit level 40, meleeing becomes a lot less efficient. Mobs hit a LOT harder, have more HP, and more AC. You also get access JBB and Epic in 5-6 levels.

Shamans were designed to melee to a certain degree. This is evident by their 200 maximum skill for weapon skills at level 50. This is the same cap as Shadowknights and Paladins. Druids and Clerics have a 175 cap at level 50. Also, Shamans get a specific buff line to help with their meleeing: https://wiki.project1999.com/Frenzy to https://wiki.project1999.com/Voice_of_the_Berserker . Not saying it is an amazing spell line, but the game design is crystal clear.

[Snaggles]

Once slowed bash timers almost freeze in time. Lag spikes or an add will kill you, not a momentary bash. Not typically at least.

All the sham races are great because the class is great. With an epic and fungi (pre 60) you are almost unstoppable. If a scrubby casual though a JBB will make your life wayyy easier than going iksar. Realistically ask yourself if you will get the epic (or if at all) unless you want an underdog trophy.