Bard swarm kiting that kills other players

[zanderklocke]

I think low-hp aggro should be nerfed before nerfing AE kiting. Low-hp aggro is the reason there are do many bards at all times AE leveling. There is no risk to do it, and it has the ability to screw up everyone else's aggro on mobs in zone. I'll admit that I did it a bunch last summer to level up because I wasn't that good at AE kiting at the time due to lag. However, with low-hp aggro working how it does there is no reason why people wouldn't level up as a bard doing it, hence so many bards...super easy to hit level 50.

Without low hp aggro, BW, DL, FM, and EJ can't even really be used to level up by bards.

However, my personal stance is that it none of this should be nerfed unless it is proven to not be classic; I just think the ability to low-hp kite as a duo should be removed before the classic feature of solo AE kiting is.

Petition if you believe a player is intentionally disrupting a zone.

[Weekapaug]

The no boxing rule isn't classic. I knew more than several boxers during classic thru velious. No RMT isn't classic. Well, technically wasn't allowed but it's not like it was ever enforced in any substantial way. Raid mob variance...Not classic. And the list goes on and on.

Yet we have all of these things here as an attempt to preserve some semblence of a classic experience, don't we?

As I said before, I'm not necessarily in favor of a nerf. Would actually hate to see it happen. But what is going on here with bards monopolizing entire zones never happened live until eras much later than this. The mechanics were in place but they weren't removed until they became a problem much later. It was not a problem until later because no one was doing it until later. According to a lot of people, it is a problem here, now.

Simple logic dicates that you can't have it both ways.

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The no boxing rule isn't classic. I knew more than several boxers during classic thru velious. No RMT isn't classic. Well, technically wasn't allowed but it's not like it was ever enforced in any substantial way. Raid mob variance...Not classic. And the list goes on and on.

Yet we have all of these things here as an attempt to preserve some semblence of a classic experience, don't we?

As I said before, I'm not necessarily in favor of a nerf. Would actually hate to see it happen. But what is going on here with bards monopolizing entire zones never happened live until eras much later than this. The mechanics were in place but they weren't removed until they became a problem much later. It was not a problem until later because no one was doing it until later. According to a lot of people, it is a problem here, now.

Simple logic dicates that you can't have it both ways.

Not to get into a he said/she said, but all those things you have used as examples are non-examples. Variance is an attempt to simulate the patch/crash repop that happened on live and fortuitously helped to work against single-guild dominance back then. From what I hear it's probably going to be replaced with simulated server "patch" days so it's a moot point anyway.

RMT will never go away, but you better believe they pursued those who took part in it and banned accounts continually all through live. That's a horrible example to choose. No-boxing on a free server makes complete sense. It's a binary choice to have it or not. It's true lots of people boxed on classic, but then as they were paying for each account that was their perogative really (the spell checker tries to change that to "pRerogative" btw mods). In a situation where accounts are free and systems are capable of running multiple versions of the game (as opposed to having to fork out for separate systems and a fast enough connection etc. back in the day), there is really no other choice.

Saying "some semblance of classic" is just being sullen. The server is very close to classic, and that's the idea. That isn't going to change, and hopefully will get closer to classic as things go on, not further away. They aren't trying to correct any of the faults with the game, they are trying to recreate the classic experience on modern systems with modern bandwidth - and that's why we're all here. The game wasn't perfect in its original form, but it was what it was and that is part of the magic of it. That includes exploits and bugs, and imbalances - including low HP kiting (which I agree is absurd and I refuse to do it for that reason).

What is continually bemusing is how so many on the forums angrily put forward non-classic changes as if they are reasonable and "logical" (whatever that means in the context of recreation). It's a classic server. The things that aren't exact are being moved toward being more exact, not further away. Suggestions that are completely contradictory to that due to personal bugbears are downright silly. It doesn't matter what we like or don't like about classic mechanics, that's the mandate of the server.

And it's working, and I for one love it, problems and all.

[wrxBRAH]

1) Bind in zone, preferably on the opposite end

2) Heal their hp kiter

3) Gate and relog to reset your aggro


Problem solved.

[DarkwingDuck]

Originally Posted by wrxBRAH [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) Bind in zone, preferably on the opposite end

2) Heal their hp kiter

3) Gate and relog to reset your aggro


Problem solved.

I love this

[Briscoe]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but then as they were paying for each account that was their perogative really (the spell checker tries to change that to "pRerogative" btw mods).

As it should.

[Weekapaug]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not to get into a he said/she said, but all those things you have used as examples are non-examples. Variance is an attempt to simulate the patch/crash repop that happened on live and fortuitously helped to work against single-guild dominance back then. From what I hear it's probably going to be replaced with simulated server "patch" days so it's a moot point anyway.

RMT will never go away, but you better believe they pursued those who took part in it and banned accounts continually all through live. That's a horrible example to choose. No-boxing on a free server makes complete sense. It's a binary choice to have it or not. It's true lots of people boxed on classic, but then as they were paying for each account that was their perogative really (the spell checker tries to change that to "pRerogative" btw mods). In a situation where accounts are free and systems are capable of running multiple versions of the game (as opposed to having to fork out for separate systems and a fast enough connection etc. back in the day), there is really no other choice.

Saying "some semblance of classic" is just being sullen. The server is very close to classic, and that's the idea. That isn't going to change, and hopefully will get closer to classic as things go on, not further away. They aren't trying to correct any of the faults with the game, they are trying to recreate the classic experience on modern systems with modern bandwidth - and that's why we're all here. The game wasn't perfect in its original form, but it was what it was and that is part of the magic of it. That includes exploits and bugs, and imbalances - including low HP kiting (which I agree is absurd and I refuse to do it for that reason).

What is continually bemusing is how so many on the forums angrily put forward non-classic changes as if they are reasonable and "logical" (whatever that means in the context of recreation). It's a classic server. The things that aren't exact are being moved toward being more exact, not further away. Suggestions that are completely contradictory to that due to personal bugbears are downright silly. It doesn't matter what we like or don't like about classic mechanics, that's the mandate of the server.

And it's working, and I for one love it, problems and all.

Nah, there were some big show-y examples made of blatant RMTers but the vast majority of it went unnoticed and eventually Sony even got in on the game with the Cash Store. Same thing with use of 3rd party programs. That got policed heavily while the orginal verant team was still there, but after a while they just stopped trying to enforce it. People would have to blatantly warp etc in the presence of a GM to even raise an eyebrow. Instead of stepping up efforts to fight it, Sony levelled the field some by adding Mercs. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Again, there are plenty of examples on non-Classic things here that are in place in an effort to be classic. The no-boxing rule is a great example. Boxing was entirely classic, but during classic it was not done to the extent that it was done later to the detriment of grouping. So we have an actively enforced no-boxing policy here. Bards were not mass AoE kiting, training people and disrupting normal play until much later eras. I'm simply arguing that it's not classic, because no one was doing it. Others would argue that it works against the health of the server.

And, again, you can't have it both ways. Logic, my friend. If bards can monopolize entire zones with kiting methods that, in practice, weren't happening during the classic era, then why can't we box, when that was?

Repectfully, your argument goes back and forth and makes no sense at all.

[mcappy]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah, there were some big show-y examples made of blatant RMTers but the vast majority of it went unnoticed and eventually Sony even got in on the game with the Cash Store. Same thing with use of 3rd party programs. That got policed heavily while the orginal verant team was still there, but after a while they just stopped trying to enforce it. People would have to blatantly warp etc in the presence of a GM to even raise an eyebrow. Instead of stepping up efforts to fight it, Sony levelled the field some by adding Mercs. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Again, there are plenty of examples on non-Classic things here that are in place in an effort to be classic. The no-boxing rule is a great example. Boxing was entirely classic, but during classic it was not done to the extent that it was done later to the detriment of grouping. So we have an actively enforced no-boxing policy here. Bards were not mass AoE kiting, training people and disrupting normal play until much later eras. I'm simply arguing that it's not classic, because no one was doing it. Others would argue that it works against the health of the server.

And, again, you can't have it both ways. Logic, my friend. If bards can monopolize entire zones with kiting methods that, in practice, weren't happening during the classic era, then why can't we box, when that was?

Repectfully, your argument goes back and forth and makes no sense at all.

Two-boxing and RMT were against the rules, though. Just because they weren't as good at catching people or didn't want to invest the resources required doesn't mean it was 'classic'. I think they made two-boxing legal sometime in Luclin, but it may have been a bit earlier. They were even banning people for using WinEQ in the early days (remember the debacle when they probed your running processes and EQ folder for cheats and banned a bunch of WinEQ players?).

As far as bard AoE kiting goes, I'm not sure if it's "not classic" because it wasn't possible back then or if it's "not classic" because people didn't figure it out until a bit later. Swarm kiting was a big thing in Kunark (though it was usually TD raptors), but I don't recall ever seeing a bard AoE kite until PoP.

[Galelor]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah, there were some big show-y examples made of blatant RMTers but the vast majority of it went unnoticed and eventually Sony even got in on the game with the Cash Store. Same thing with use of 3rd party programs. That got policed heavily while the orginal verant team was still there, but after a while they just stopped trying to enforce it. People would have to blatantly warp etc in the presence of a GM to even raise an eyebrow. Instead of stepping up efforts to fight it, Sony levelled the field some by adding Mercs. Etc. Etc. Etc.

This is not true, as they were still trying to enforce 3rd party program use rules. I knew several people that were banned, after mercs came out, for 3rd party use. One of my characters was also banned. There were not 'warp in front of gm' type offenses.

[Weekapaug]

Originally Posted by Galelor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is not true, as they were still trying to enforce 3rd party program use rules. I knew several people that were banned, after mercs came out, for 3rd party use. One of my characters was also banned. There were not 'warp in front of gm' type offenses.

Well good on them if they stepped it up. While I've been back a few times just to check things out since mercs, I stopped playing for real just before mercs went in and there were MQers freaking everywhere. Got to be ridiculous how much of that was going on, really. Used to literally watch people warp across freaking PoK.