VP closed to Class R guilds?

[Fanguru]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wipe it and split it. A rotation server for those that come from servers with a history of rotation, and a FFA server for those that come from servers with a history of FFA.

I would love that. I'm pretty sure the FFA server would have 200 players at peak time though [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It would also probably lose its population fast when players lose interest because there is no casual scum to envy their shinies.

[Loke]

The reason for the layer of protection in VP is to counter the layer of protection afforded to class R guilds when the class system was created. To make implementation of he class system equitable for all parties, there was give and take on both sides. Class C gave up mobs outside VP (because prior to the system all mobs were essentially class C) and in return they got the caveat that top tier content remained class C. I personally haven't heard class C people trying to alter the deal that was made, yet it seems every week there is a new post by someone in class R trying to have their cake and eat it too.

If you want to raid end game content, you have to leave the loving protection class R affords you, it is really as simple as that. It isn't about whether class C could handle the competition, more that they negotiated this agreement in good faith, and expect it to be honored, just as you expect them to honor your classes rotation. If you want to remove protections afforded to guilds, I'm sure class C would be happy to go back to the way it was, with no class system or bag limits, but to continually try to alter the agreement in your favor when class C has continued to honor their's indicates to me that class C isn't the real problem.

Oh how quickly class R forgets what raiding was like before the class system.

***disclaimer: I haven't raided in over 6 months, so my knowledge of recent events is not perfect or complete. This is just my observation as someone who has been around for awhile and still lurks on the forums****

[-TK-]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please replace "time and effort" in your paragraph with "staring at a wall for 16 hours" and see if it still makes sense to you.

I understand what you are saying there, and I don't think anyone would say that it requires anything but time to track. The time and effort I see goes into the guild coordination of leveling specific characters specifically for tracking and real people taking turns so no one gets burnt out. I surely don't mind tracking while I'm watching a movie or working at my desk for a few hours or helping to PL a tracking character. I pity anyone that literally sits there staring at a wall, but more power to them if they want to. If other guilds can't coordinate to do something similar, then that guild collectively doesn't want those pixels as bad. TMO and IB have people that are willing to put in that time and effort for the benefit of the guild as well as themselves. You may think it's ridiculous to put in that effort, but that is where the separation lies between C and R.

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, to become class C you have to...

A lot of that makes sense as well, but if class R is supposed to be a stepping stone, by removing FFA mobs you are removing opportunities for guilds to practice against class C guilds outside of repops. (1 per month?) I would imagine the FFAs would equal more opportunities to practice and hone your skills against class C guilds without sacrificing the class R designated spawns, enabling guilds to move up faster.

And I believe the designated class C protected spawns (outside of VP) were designated that way because they did give up a lot of spawns with the new system. If you look at it this way, no spawns are are off limits to class R (VP included if you're willing to make the jump), but there are numerous spawns absolutely off limits to class C that are punishable if engaged. A protected non-vp spawn here and there doesn't seem that outlandish when they practically could be wiping the continents clean. And if the system is intended for people to be moving up to class C, then those protected spawns make perfect sense as class C grows. At the end of the day I think this all comes back to time and effort as discussed in previous post. It doesn't seem fair that the guilds putting in more time, effort, and prep work get the lion's share of spawns? Does it bother you that class C is getting more loot? Then take a risk and step up to contest for it and you'll have a few protected spawns to compete against as well outside of VP. Nothing risked, nothing gained.

I'm just a talking head, and everything I typed may not have come out the way I intended, but where things don't seem ideal for everyone around here, they reflect the truths of life. Thanks for taking the time to expand my understanding of the current situation.

[Man0warr]

If you want to raid end game content, you have to leave the loving protection class R affords you, it is really as simple as that. It isn't about whether class C could handle the competition, more that they negotiated this agreement in good faith, and expect it to be honored, just as you expect them to honor your classes rotation. If you want to remove protections afforded to guilds, I'm sure class C would be happy to go back to the way it was, with no class system or bag limits, but to continually try to alter the agreement in your favor when class C has continued to honor their's indicates to me that class C isn't the real problem.

Class C didn't negotiate anything in good faith - no one did in fact.

What we have is what Rogean gave to us, with much kicking and screaming from Class C.

A lot of that makes sense as well, but if class R is supposed to be a stepping stone, by removing FFA mobs you are removing opportunities for guilds to practice against class C guilds outside of repops. (1 per month?) I would imagine the FFAs would equal more opportunities to practice and hone your skills against class C guilds without sacrificing the class R designated spawns, enabling guilds to move up faster.

Except that is only the GMs perception - no one in Class R views FFA cycle as a stepping stone, because no one in Class R would ever dream of moving up to Class C. It's a different play style - the majority of players Class R guilds have recruited wouldn't take the change well and any Class R guild going to Class C would quickly destroy itself. Anyone who wanted to play like a Class C guild are already a part of one.

The whole point is to separate the two play styles completely.

[quido]

I'm really shocked that none of you weaklings have made the plunge to Class C. What do you really have to lose? One rotation mob a week?

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm really shocked that none of you weaklings have made the plunge to Class C. What do you really have to lose? One rotation mob a week?

Their guild breaking apart.

[quido]

If 0.8 rotation mobs a week are what's holding your guild together, maybe you owe it yourself to just disband.

[Man0warr]

It has nothing to do with the mobs.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It has everything to do with the pixels.

[-TK-]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Class C didn't negotiate anything in good faith - no one did in fact.

What we have is what Rogean gave to us, with much kicking and screaming from Class C.



Except that is only the GMs perception - no one in Class R views FFA cycle as a stepping stone, because no one in Class R would ever dream of moving up to Class C. It's a different play style - the majority of players Class R guilds have recruited wouldn't take the change well and any Class R guild going to Class C would quickly destroy itself. Anyone who wanted to play like a Class C guild are already a part of one.

The whole point is to separate the two play styles completely.

The GM's devised the system with a certain end in mind and if that is their end then people need to respect that and move on as they run the show. While I'm not going to search for the quote, I do remember the GM's stating that they prefer a competitive server over a rotation which is why class R's had to be player made. Class R has the hand that was dealt to them by the staff and now they need to decide whether to ante up and play the hand (class R), go all-in (class C), or fold. Stop asking for an extra card. The likely hood of any big changes before Velious is slim.