Another reason entitlements need to go bye-bye

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I realize you don't feel this way but I don't feel people should be profiting off of other peoples illnesses. Everyone needs or will need healthcare at some point in their life and everyone should have healthcare. I realize it will probably never happen in the US but healthcare should be nationalized.

Allowing people to destroy their bodies, not carry insurance and let problems fester until they are eligible for the Medicare gravy train isn't good either. Insurance should be manditory for everyone to make it work so problems can be prevented and not have the burden passed on to medicare.

The only way it shouldn't be manditory is if we as a society decide it is acceptible to let people die if they cannot afford the costs of the healthcare they need. You don't carry insurance and you get shot why the hell should I have to pay for you to get healed when you should have had it in the first place. You rolled the dice and lost.

Asher

I agree that every person should have healthcare, but even more so I think everyone should be responsible for purchasing and maintaining their own insurance for when healthcare is necessary. To me it goes back to a lack of personal accountability and the government showcases that reckless spending is an acceptable lifestyle. If we all managed our home finances the same way the government does we'd be bankrupt or in jail. Why worry about debt when you can just shrug it off on future generations or rely on the government to bail you out?

Back to healthcare, I'm with you on those points but I don't think that insurance shouldn't be a profitable industry. That profession is about taking risks on people's health while, at the same time, offering a stop loss cap for the people who actually need it. To me that's a fair trade and I don't think employers should be forced to provide that peace of mind. It should be an incentive offered at the employer's discretion to make certain positions more attractive. Forcing them to provide it, or pay fines, is going to result in the loss of jobs which is going to put more strain on welfare programs.

I don't think there is an umbrella approach to fixing anything, but I think the citizens of America need to begin holding our government and elected officials responsible for their massive spending issues. If that means pulling out of war zones, cutting government jobs or benefits, raising taxes in some areas, etc. I'm all for it but there HAS to be some compromise and right now no one in Washington seems willing or capable of that.

[Pico]

excellent post that will be ignored

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Pico [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

excellent post that will be ignored

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ment+of+Energy.

[purist]

Originally Posted by Salty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ment+of+Energy.

no shit

[Pico]

Originally Posted by Salty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ment+of+Energy.

i've seen it before, so let me reiterate

Originally Posted by Pico [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

excellent post that will be ignored

[Harrison]

http://www.google.com/search?source=...0l0l0l0l0l0ll0

It was word for word copy pasted. Lol what a tool

[deakolt]

i'm entitled to phat loots on this free server,

what, what motherfuckas

TOO BIG

[Misto]

Social security was meant to be a supplemental income supply to be used with your retirement. However, the majority of Americans don't put 10 to 15% of their paycheck in a retirement account or invest their money at all.

Some people live off social security.

[Silmiril]

The idea of helping out someone who is down on their luck has great appeal. Who want to see starving people dying of preventable diseases in the US. Surely a free national health system is the answer to the hordes of people suffering and dying for lack of access to decent medical care. How dare those greedy drug companies, medical equipment companies, doctors and hospitals acutally make a profit! Not to mention the greedy insurance companies that do everything to deny health care. They should all be disbanded and the Federal Government should take control and nationalize all health care industries! Evil Profit should not be allowed!

That idea sounds great in principle but I have some questions for you. How many new drugs or new medical devices were invented by those countries that provide medical care? How about the new medical procedure that are invented in the US by those greedy for profit doctors? The majority of research is done by for profit companies. Are you willing to give up advanced medical research so there is no profit to be made in medicine? Did the Federal Government map the human geonome? Wasn't the for profit medical establishment responsible for coming up with effective drugs and treatments for childhood leukemia for example that would have killed my niece 10 years ago?

The whole internet line and DARPA is the most mis-used example I can think of. How much research do you think the employees of DARPA do. Basically none. They create research grants to companies like the one I used to work for to do their research. Was DARPA responsible for the way the internet became popular or was it the for profit compaines the created content that people wanted to use? Oooooh evil profitsssssss!!!

The DoE is one of the most screwed up companies in the entire government. They are the worst example of any government agency you could have picked are are probably the most disfunctional agency in the entire US Government. I suggest you do some research on the Hanford, Washington facility, or the numerious other Superfund sites they are in charge of cleaning up. And they have nothing to do with regulating your power company even if it is a nuclear plant (try NRC for the nuclear plant and your state government for other types power plants). And ask Southern Maryland and Washington DC residents how well their Governments are regulating Pepco btw. They would tell you but they are probably sitting in the dark due to another power outage.

Oh and please tell Japan that their health care system that is based on for profit hospitals and doctors doesn't work and they need to completly nationalize their health care system quick. It really cracks me up how many people who are for free health care, and against profits, talk about them all the time and they don't know what kind of system they actually have.

So you would say that TSA is well run and is a model agency right? I mean it is a federal agency. Imagine how well they would run your health care.

How about Vetreran Hospitals or military doctors? I am not talking about the surgeons that treat the battlefield injuries. I grew up in a miltary family and know how bad the doctors were in the 70's and 80's. My father is a retired Naval Officer. The surgeons were good but the regular doctors like Internists were horrible.

I am not saying that the government is evil and that it isn't necessary. To think that it would be better because there is no profit involved is niave (sp?) at best. The problem is you still have people making decisions that may not be any better than someone trying to make a profit. Decisions are made by all using all kinds of motivations. And since in the Federal Government you won't be held accountable for any stupid boneheaded decision you make, it makes it even worse.

I have worked for companies that have provided IT services to Federal Agencies and the DoD for most of the past 20+ years. I have seen the waste, fraud, and stupid decisions first hand. I don't what them anywhere near making decisions about my health.

Silmiril

[Saeculum]

Originally Posted by Silmiril [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The idea of helping out someone who is down on their luck has great appeal. Who want to see starving people dying of preventable diseases in the US. Surely a free national health system is the answer to the hordes of people suffering and dying for lack of access to decent medical care. How dare those greedy drug companies, medical equipment companies, doctors and hospitals acutally make a profit! Not to mention the greedy insurance companies that do everything to deny health care. They should all be disbanded and the Federal Government should take control and nationalize all health care industries! Evil Profit should not be allowed!

That idea sounds great in principle but I have some questions for you. How many new drugs or new medical devices were invented by those countries that provide medical care? How about the new medical procedure that are invented in the US by those greedy for profit doctors? The majority of research is done by for profit companies. Are you willing to give up advanced medical research so there is no profit to be made in medicine? Did the Federal Government map the human geonome? Wasn't the for profit medical establishment responsible for coming up with effective drugs and treatments for childhood leukemia for example that would have killed my niece 10 years ago?

The whole internet line and DARPA is the most mis-used example I can think of. How much research do you think the employees of DARPA do. Basically none. They create research grants to companies like the one I used to work for to do their research. Was DARPA responsible for the way the internet became popular or was it the for profit compaines the created content that people wanted to use? Oooooh evil profitsssssss!!!

The DoE is one of the most screwed up companies in the entire government. They are the worst example of any government agency you could have picked are are probably the most disfunctional agency in the entire US Government. I suggest you do some research on the Hanford, Washington facility, or the numerious other Superfund sites they are in charge of cleaning up. And they have nothing to do with regulating your power company even if it is a nuclear plant (try NRC for the nuclear plant and your state government for other types power plants). And ask Southern Maryland and Washington DC residents how well their Governments are regulating Pepco btw. They would tell you but they are probably sitting in the dark due to another power outage.

Oh and please tell Japan that their health care system that is based on for profit hospitals and doctors doesn't work and they need to completly nationalize their health care system quick. It really cracks me up how many people who are for free health care, and against profits, talk about them all the time and they don't know what kind of system they actually have.

So you would say that TSA is well run and is a model agency right? I mean it is a federal agency. Imagine how well they would run your health care.

How about Vetreran Hospitals or military doctors? I am not talking about the surgeons that treat the battlefield injuries. I grew up in a miltary family and know how bad the doctors were in the 70's and 80's. My father is a retired Naval Officer. The surgeons were good but the regular doctors like Internists were horrible.

I am not saying that the government is evil and that it isn't necessary. To think that it would be better because there is no profit involved is niave (sp?) at best. The problem is you still have people making decisions that may not be any better than someone trying to make a profit. Decisions are made by all using all kinds of motivations. And since in the Federal Government you won't be held accountable for any stupid boneheaded decision you make, it makes it even worse.

I have worked for companies that have provided IT services to Federal Agencies and the DoD for most of the past 20+ years. I have seen the waste, fraud, and stupid decisions first hand. I don't what them anywhere near making decisions about my health.

Silmiril

In response to this you should check out this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20966778
which concludes "that assessed recommended processes of care almost always demonstrated that the VA performed better than non-VA comparison groups. Studies that assessed risk-adjusted mortality generally found similar rates for patients in VA and non-VA settings".