And now we're terrorists..

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One issue, one step at a time.

I invite you to look up why the French celebrate Bastille Day.
I invite you to look up why the Americans celebrate Independence Day.

They wield exactly the amount of influence we've allowed them to accumulate. It is our mess, and some of us are going to clean it up.

There is an essential disconnect between people of the last generation and people of the emergent generation. It can be summed up with a allegories about trash and amphibians.

Trash:

There is an island of non-biodegradable junk in the pacific ocean which has an area twice the size of Texas. I really don't need to say anything more about this.

Amphibians:

Right now, all amphibians are dying.

That sounds alarmist, unrealistic, and untrue, but it's a fact.

In the 1940's, the African Claw-Toed frog was widely exported because when you inject it with a pregnant female humans urine, it produces eggs. This strange property allowed it to be used as a pregnancy test, in a time before EPT.

What people didn't know then, and what we know now is that the African Claw Toed frog, as part of it's natural flora, harbored a type of fungus called Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis (commonly called "the chytrid fungus" after the division name for that type of fungi). As part of this animals natural flora, it helped protect this animal from other pathogens, and was contained within it's natural environment through ecological means. Chytrid grows on the skin of any amphibian, however, and in the absense of natural measures to contain it, has grown rampant worldwide. The problem with chytrid fungus is that when it grows on amphibians other than the African Claw Toed Frog in that animals natural environment, it forms a waxy coat on the skin of the host amphibian. The problem with that is that amphibians breath and drink partially through their skin.

The death rate of inoculated amphibians is 100%.

Do I need to explain the cycle of life?

Now. One option is to throw our hands up in the air and say "what can we do about such a huge problem?" There is no easy way to fix it, and we certainly aren't going to get any major help from governments bent on imperialism. However, the other option is to find a way.

Many older scientists have thrown their hands up in the air, apathized by apathy. This is anecdotal and empirical, but I'm sure there are sources you can find that will give you the same review of some of the older generation of scientists.

There are, however, a new generation of young scientists (lulz) who are unwilling to say "this problem is too big," and they are actively working to find real solutions. Just a couple years ago, there was no feasible solution for the garbage, now there are a dozen - and figuring out which one to implement is now their major task. Similarly, a couple years ago, most people who knew about the chytrid crisis threw their hands up in the air, not seeing a possible solution, as it then and currently affects some groups in every population of every species of amphibian in the world. Some of the new generation have actually started to go into each group in a population and hand-inoculate individuals with an organism that outcompetes chytrid without harming the frogs. These individuals have survived, and their groups have flourished. So there is a solution, it just had to be found.

The problem with our government is not too big of a problem. They are not too powerful. Their power flows from us. They have forgotten this and need to be reinformed. If that requires that we fire each and every individual in public service, and rip up centuries of bullshit laws fought for by lobbyists of the powerful, then so be it.

One step at a time.

Rebels from Bastille Day and Independence Day are not comparable to OWS protesters. It's a delusional comparison. OWS is not an armed rebellion. It's not an attempt to overthrow government. It's a social movement that doesn't even have broad popular support yet. As of November 16th, 33% of Americans support the goals of OWS; 45% oppose them. The Tea Party has greater support. That's not meant to degrade OWS; it's meant to put it in perspective.

You act as if the wealthy are at the mercy of the masses. That's not the way the world works, and it's not the way it's worked in a long time. Rich people don't need to stay in America. Or at least, they don't need to keep their money in America. In a globalized world, all the leverage is with the wealthy. If your laws aren't favorable, they'll find a country with favorable laws and stash their money there. If you eliminate private campaign funding, you're simply passing the buck. Instead of a system corrupted by the wealthy, you'll have a system corrupted by political parties -- which will be corrupted by the wealthy. Look at Italy and Berlusconi. Money talks. It always has. You like Bastille Day and Independence Day. Who were the kingmakers in post-Revolution America and France? The wealthy; the landowners.

I get your point, but your rhetoric doesn't match reality. Reality is that OWS is a significant social movement with enough public influence to swing certain contested political issues. It's not a brewing revolution that's going to change the dynamics of American government. There are things OWS can accomplish, but if the movement as a whole is foolish enough to refuse to adopt a set of achievable goals, it will result in a lot of wasted enthusiasm.

[Hasbinbad]

I understand what you're saying, and I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the potential of Occupy.

Based on this statement, however, I don't think you understand..

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rich people don't need to stay in America.

1300 major cities worldwide.
Global revolution.
It has only just begun.

-

Also, they are only as rich as we let them be due to their own machinations. All of their power, money, and wealth is on paper. In computers. Those things are very vulnerable.

Actual assets can be seized, by whatever means necessary.

Right now, we don't have that power, but only because we've let them take it from us. Only time will tell if that will change, and neither of us is so prescient to be able to conjure images of the future.

[Harrison]

Rofl now you want to legalize theft, outright? You are so fucking painfully dumb.

[Aruden]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...195#post486195

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rofl now you want to legalize theft, outright? You are so fucking painfully dumb.

You think we still live in a nation of laws, and call me dumb?

*deep breath, remember Amelindas request*

Considering the source, I'm somehow not feeling insulted.

[Hasbinbad]

Daldoma:
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

[Humerox]

when did that go live?

reading thru it atm

[Humerox]

nvm...October 7th.

[Daldolma]

Good for you all. That's a big step. The suggested content is still far too broad and some of it is very poorly conceived, but it's a start. Identifying official leadership and drafting a concrete set of goals is essential, and things will likely further narrow themselves from there.

[vitalious]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand what you're saying, and I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the potential of Occupy.

Based on this statement, however, I don't think you understand..

1300 major cities worldwide.
Global revolution.
It has only just begun.

-

Also, they are only as rich as we let them be due to their own machinations. All of their power, money, and wealth is on paper. In computers. Those things are very vulnerable.

Actual assets can be seized, by whatever means necessary.

Right now, we don't have that power, but only because we've let them take it from us. Only time will tell if that will change, and neither of us is so prescient to be able to conjure images of the future.

I see someone watched Fightclub.