Raid Changes

[Reiyz]

I didn't actually mean, no more camping.

I'm all for camping. I think it should be THREE FULL GROUPS though, and not 15 people.

If 18 people want to sit at a mob for 15 hours, then like Witness said I feel that they deserve it.

[Nizzarr]

Yea, can we remove every and all of hasbinbad's post in this thread? just keep one where he states his opinions on this. Then we can all move on and not deal with that any of his naysaying.

so to reiterate hasbinbad point of view on this:

1) he doesnt trust transcendence to play fair on this, thats his point of view.

Even though transcendence didnt really play unfair lately concerning rotations( I dont count the camping of nagafen that day, you went around the rules because no one set clear rules. if anything it was a precedent to set more rules). I believe transcendence would play fair until shown otherwise( which they never did to my knowledge, as far as claiming mobs)

2) he really likes the idea of a rotation.

Thats his point of view and I dont agree with it, and many others dont as well.


Thats about it.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea, can we remove every and all of hasbinbad's post in this thread? just keep one where he states his opinions on this. Then we can all move on and not deal with that any of his naysaying.

so to reiterate hasbinbad point of view on this:

1) he doesnt trust transcendence to play fair on this, thats his point of view.

Even though transcendence didnt really play unfair lately concerning rotations( I dont count the camping of nagafen that day, you went around the rules because no one set clear rules. if anything it was a precedent to set more rules). I believe transcendence would play fair until shown otherwise( which they never did to my knowledge, as far as claiming mobs)

2) he really likes the idea of a rotation.

Thats his point of view and I dont agree with it, and many others dont as well.


Thats about it.

I lol'd irl.
This spawn variance has no chance of being fair. We may as well hand every spawn to trans and just quit now. They recruit thousands of scrubs and will camp everything for days. They have already done this.

Stick your head in the sand more Nizzarr.

Can we delete all of Nizzarr's posts about how great this system is? Just create one where it states what his opinion is. Then we can move on and not deal with any of his false hope.

Here is a recap of Nizzarr's opinion:

1.) He is a greedy bastard who wants - at all costs - more than an equal share of mobs and is operating under the delusion that just because we're more coordinated that we can, over time, defeat a zerg as far as spawn rules are concerned.

2.) He doesn't realize that even if they don't cheat again (I don't care if it wasn't cheating in the exact sense that they could cheat again, they cheated which tells us a lot about their character), Trans will most likely figure out some way within the rules to send one pregnant ranger into a lair and ten minutes later the entire zone is crawling with zerglings who will claim camped and prevent us from legitimately engaging a raid target ever.

That is his point of view and I don't agree with it, and many others don't as well.

That's about it.

[Widan]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I lol'd irl.
We may as well hand every spawn to trans and just quit now. They recruit thousands of scrubs and will camp everything for days. They have already done this.

I don't see any problem at all with this, infact that is what is supposed to happen. If they have more people and can camp for more hours then it follows that they would get more raid mobs.

[Reiyz]

Originally Posted by Widan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see any problem at all with this, infact that is what is supposed to happen. If they have more people and can camp for more hours then it follows that they would get more raid mobs.

Exactly.

Dedication = winning at Everquest.

This game has ALWAYS followed this formula.

Hours you put in + hours those around you put in = success in everquest.

[Dartagnan]

While I initially disagree because of it doesn't seem classic, I think this is the best solution to the whole raid encounter problem.

If guilds cannot agree to compete with static spawn times then this is the next best solution in my book and I fully support and will champion this decision.

I absolutely do not want rotation and if it comes down to a variance in spawn time to get people on board then I am 100% fully in support of this idea.

[Finawin]

Originally Posted by Widan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see any problem at all with this, infact that is what is supposed to happen. If they have more people and can camp for more hours then it follows that they would get more raid mobs.

Stop making sense, right now.

[Maximus]

Hear ye hear ye! I ask for your attention, O brothers and sisters, for one important issue of our beloved game, the infamous Spawn Variance.

Here's the breakdown:
Upon the opening of raid scene on the P1999 server, standard rules were followed as they were back on classic EQ. for those of you who are not familiar, since this system barely got to peak its head out, i will introduce the concept here.
CLASSICAL SYSTEM
STATIC 7 day spawns on all major raid targets (Nagafen, Vox, Innoruuk, Cazic Thule)
STATIC 3 day spawns on Dracoliche and Maestro of Rankor.
HISTORY:
One of the reasons that this system was taken out was because of guilds using the strategy of camping a mob 1 day before it spawned to acquire security on that mob.
PROBLEMS: guilds who felt wronged by this show of endurance, AKA camping, resorted to classical strategies of training, leapfrogging, asshatery.


ENFORCED ROTATION
STATIC 7 day spawns on all major raid targets (Nagafen, Vox, Innoruuuk, Cazic Thule)
STATIC 3 day spawns on Dracoliche and Maestro of Rankor.
HISTORY:
Due to the unsettlement between rival guilds and whining about how camping a mob was NON skilled, an enforced rotation was implemented between raiding forces.
PROBLEMS: the aspect of competition seemed to be taken out of the game, as it was guaranteed raid bosses to each guild.
this strategy was also viewed as being unclassical, which it is, something being unheard of in everquest, unless implemented by an agreement made by top guilds.

SPAWN VARIANCE
A spawn variance time of +/- 48 hours on all major raid targets (Nagafen, Vox, Innoruuk, Cazic Thule)
A spawn variance time of +/- 24 hours on Dracoliche and Maestrro of Rankor
HISTORY:
After the loss of competitive edge through the unclassic enforced rotation, Spawn variance is added to raid encounters, According to Nilbog, to promote fairness and competition.
PROBLEMS:
It has become more and more evident that we have gone back to phase one, and become campers of mobs for days upon days, waiting for that variance to hit its sweetspot. This seems to go 360 around to the beginning, when whining about camping seemed to be the problem with classic spawn times.

since this is not a perfect world, we are all aware that third party software exists and hackers are not unheard of. this is the same problem sony had back in the day on regular everquest, although it was not as severe, since something like spawn variance did not exist.
NOT POINTING ANY FINGERS AT ANYONE, as any of us could be guilty of using such software, but spawn variance promotes the use of outside help, cheating to acquire a certain edge over raid encounters.

RECAP:
CLASSICAL RULES
Camping mobs (to some, a show of competition)
Training, leapfrogging, asshatery.
Competitive and fair according to sony, the bringers of Everquest.
Third party software threats like showeq and macroquest= low, if any.
ENFORCED ROTATION
No camping of mobs (Loss of competitive edge)
Training, leapfrogging, asshatery removed (mostly).
barely competitive, but fair according to the GMs decisions at the time.
Third party software threats like showeq and macroquest= present, but low (tiki hehe) douche.
SPAWN VARIANCE
Camping mobs ( to some, a show of competition, endurance)
Training, leapfrogging, asshatery.
Competitive edge is back, but fairness....
Third Party software threats like showeq and macroquest=HIGH

Im not gonna point any fingers, as i dont wanna go through the trolling of PROVIDE INFO, PICS BLAH BLAH...
but if you GMs wanna promote competition and fairness in this good game of ours, please remove the spawn variance, and let it go back to its classical roots of normal everquest spawns.
IF CAMPING MOBS is not skilled and was what we were trying tofix initially, we haven't, and gone right back to camping with the new system. (Camping is fine by my book, its done in classic everquest, at evil eye spawn, and psychedelic music festivals)
IF PROMOTING FAIRNESS IF WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR, we have done the opposite, and left a wide open door for third party software use.
IF AVOIDING TRAINING, LEAPFROGGING, ASSHATERY is what the goal was, it hasn't worked perfectly, and its something that can only be settled between players ingame.
IF PROMOTING COMPETITION is what we were looking for, well, we're not any more competitive camping mobs now than we were at the beginning. sure gathering a force at 3 in the morning is impressive (maybe) but i think its much more competitive for a team of 20 or so to outstrategize two or possibly three other forces to acquire the kill on a dragon.
is this savage? maybe
is this competition at its best? you damn right.
would classical rules of everquest RID of the threat of unskilled advantages over a 10 year old game? hell yes.
IF YOU WANNA PROMOTE FAIRNESS AND COMPETITION, GET RID OF THE SPAWN VARIANCE, AS IT IS NOT CLASSIC AND LEAVES A WIDE OPEN DOOR FOR CHEATING. NO MORE BABYSITTING FROM THE GMs, LET THE BEST GUILD LIVE, AND THRIVE, FAIRLY, AND COMPETITIVELY.

Any imput, feedback, or thoughts on this would be much appreciated.
Thank you for your time ladies and gentlemen.

Mythoxxus

[karsten]

didn't read

[yaaaflow]

tl;dr: spawn variance is better, except in the case where someone has some sort of magical program that lets them predict when raid mobs will be spawning?