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  #111  
Old 05-13-2011, 07:15 PM
nicemace nicemace is offline
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AA's were good. Gave us something to do in down time.

Lets be honest, if you were not grinding AA's, you were doing something else in Everquest, its not like you were logging out to go spend time with your mates or anything.

Most people made alts or ran around killing greens. Some of us preferred to actually keep working on our mains.

note: and i did 2000+ AA's [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Last edited by nicemace; 05-13-2011 at 07:19 PM..
  #112  
Old 05-13-2011, 07:46 PM
Daywolf Daywolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
When, PoK, Bazar and AAs were added - the EQ was growing from 400k subscribers to 600k for yet another 2 years and 3 expansions - hows that possibly qualifies as a downfall???
Well, AA and Bazaar I agree with you. I viewed the bazaar as an ok addition, but pre pop. Pre pop, people would still hang out and sell stuff but just at a different location. Not talking about vendors, I mean trading and haggling prices outside of the vendor area. lol a lot of people would not even go into the vendor area due to the horrendous lag/video thrashing. When pop came around, with the instant travel, it became vendors only. Then later they broke up the vendor areas to kill the lag.

I liked AA, well enough at least. It was an answer to balance and better specialization. Though maybe not implemented quite right. At least it was an addition and not a total revamp of the existing system, as often that does not work out *cough SWG*

PoK (the books) is valid point made as a bad thing. It would not be a sudden downfall, just like many of the new play to win games last for a few expansions before players get bored and leave. EQ got reeeeal easy with instant travel, which is a point to which the vendors became so dominant over the hagglers/traders; no one would stick around more than 10 minutes. Then players could just travel anyplace at any time, as they did often, rather then spending a week or two in an area and meeting new players over time. It killed the community this quick travel, and EQ's strong point was community.

I'd also mention instancing as a bad thing. It brought further division to the game community just as instant travel did. So now not only could you get someplace instantly, and leaving an area after a day or two thus not getting to know anyone, but you could have your own secluded area of the game to play in, just like a multiplayer RPG.
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Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
eq was too hard core for the majority of people that played it.
Except there was no alternative to it for a long time, so people kept playing it.
When EQ2 and WoW came out, the majority of players (and potential player) have clearly shown that they prefer the casual gaming, rather than hard-core group/raid oriented gameplay. So they left.
Those who still like the hard core- they still playing to this day.
Well not on EQ live.... apart from the occasional progression servers they run now. All the community breaking "improvements" they introduced still exist. Some still sub, though probably a large part of them being station access members that play EQ as an alt game to the other games SOE includes into access. That's what it became to me after the game changes, for me at least, playing planetside and SWG but until those got screwed up too.

Yes, and too, when new games came out, players started filtering out of EQ. However, most of WoW consisted of Blizzard fanbois; those that preferred games like Diablo and warcraft (rts) playing those for years, following Blizzard games like mad puppies. Blizzard had a large playerbase before WoW was even conceived, and they got all their non-mmo players to join through aggressive marketing. As it became popular, many from the existing mmo's filtered into it due to the large communities it spawned while games like EQ having it's community destroyed by SOE. And as many of the hardcore (desiring depth) realized, WoW sucked pretty hard, at least after vanilla (I didn't play vanilla but later, and it sucked). But then maybe vanilla WoW sucked too, but just a delayed effect like what PoK instant travel books did to EQ in time.

I don't disagree with Rogean, it a way WoW did kill EQ. Not because WoW was better though, but because Blizzard pulled in a lot of non-mmo subscriptions, flooded the market with a lot of "prospective subs" that every developer decided to chase after, rather than the traditional MUD/MMO player any longer. These non-mmo players went around criticizing all the existing mmo's for not being WoW enough for them, or like before WoW they criticized mmo's for not being like Diablo enough in which the debates raged for years as they wanted Diablo recognized as an mmorpg. But they are mostly Blizzard fanbois, and no game will be good enough for them to hang out bored to death in but for Blizzard games. Developers only see leprechauns, chase after them while abandoning their existing communities and the games they like to play.
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Last edited by Daywolf; 05-13-2011 at 08:01 PM..
  #113  
Old 05-13-2011, 07:50 PM
Hasbinbad Hasbinbad is offline
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You guys have too much free time.

Get girlfriends.
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  #114  
Old 05-13-2011, 08:00 PM
Kimm Barely Kimm Barely is offline
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For me, things went exponentially downhill with Luclin... especially with WoW on the Horizon. Then PoP came out and confirmed EQ was finished.

Vanilla WoW was where it was at. Didn't bite into Burning Crusade after a year break and when I finally checked it out, it reminded me of the Luclin decline.

EZ mode plus alien planets in my fantasy MMORPG - yeah, ok.

When's Project 2004 Vanilla WoW coming out?

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  #115  
Old 05-13-2011, 08:39 PM
Ellia Ellia is offline
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I quit EQ live because it became too easy. No CRing, AA, etc. No more thought, just run in and kill.
  #116  
Old 05-13-2011, 09:27 PM
username17 username17 is offline
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It has to do with the way SOE retained it's subscribers.
SOE had to think, ok we got all these people. How do we keep them?!
Lets make everything a time sink! This will keep people playing long hours trying to get to X level or Y piece of loot.

Their system of time sinks worked, until WoW.

Blizzard came along and asked the same questions as SOE. How can we attract and keep potential subscribers?
They came up with a different (better?) answer to that question. Simply, make everything FUN!
Make every single aspect of the game fun and entertaining. Create goals for the players and show them how to achieve them. Replace time sinks with fun interactive game play.

Players went from EQ where it would take 30 minutes just to make a group to WoW where they could start a quest and complete it in 30 minutes.

In two words: Instant Gratification
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  #117  
Old 05-13-2011, 09:59 PM
Kika Maslyaka Kika Maslyaka is offline
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i would not mark that as instant gratification- this is just too overused.
WoW simply broken down one GIGANTIC grind EQ1 had into thousand small steps with a little carrot attached to each.
And yeah, I prefer to log in for 30-60 min, and actually complete SOMETHING, than spend 30 min just putting group together, then another 30 min running to a dungeon, grinding it for 30 min, then discovering that oops cleric has to go, then spend 30 min looking for another cleric... And what about those 8 hours VT raids? I mean fucking seriously? I have a full time job you know.

call it what you want- wow approach is better [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Last edited by Kika Maslyaka; 05-13-2011 at 10:01 PM..
  #118  
Old 05-13-2011, 10:02 PM
Daywolf Daywolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by username17 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It has to do with the way SOE retained it's subscribers.
SOE had to think, ok we got all these people. How do we keep them?!
Lets make everything a time sink! This will keep people playing long hours trying to get to X level or Y piece of loot.

Their system of time sinks worked, until WoW.

Blizzard came along and asked the same questions as SOE. How can we attract and keep potential subscribers?
They came up with a different (better?) answer to that question. Simply, make everything FUN!
Make every single aspect of the game fun and entertaining. Create goals for the players and show them how to achieve them. Replace time sinks with fun interactive game play.

Players went from EQ where it would take 30 minutes just to make a group to WoW where they could start a quest and complete it in 30 minutes.

In two words: Instant Gratification
Well as far as SOE goes, with firsthand knowledge of the whole SWG debacle as the obvious example, they didn't give a crap about existing subscribers. They seriously dumbed SWG down (removing lots!) in their own words "for new players". The existing community totally fell by the wayside, and there was absolute hell to pay when NGE released, or was 100% snuck in. But that is not just SWG, it's SOE's play on their game projects and the way they are notorious on dealing with their player base. Their philosophy is more like too big to fail and who needs vet players promoting their game excellence, drawing in new subscribers, when they can just mass market a new spin on things, themselves. Fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
i would not mark that as instant gratification- this is just too overused.
WoW simply broken down one GIGANTIC grind EQ1 had into thousand small steps with a little carrot attached to each.
And yeah, I prefer to log in for 30-60 min, and actually complete SOMETHING, than spend 30 min just putting group together, then another 30 min running to a dungeon, grinding it for 30 min, then discovering that oops cleric has to go, then spend 30 min looking for another cleric... And what about those 8 hours VT raids? I mean fucking seriously? I have a full time job you know.

call it what you want- wow approach is better [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
And that is an example to site concerning the fanboi approach to sabotaging every other game than their own, having been done in masses at every gamesite. Fortunately at EQemu it's in poor taste, but asshat publishers like SOE eat it up and go chasing after the fanboi playerbase they will never get. Fail.
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Last edited by Daywolf; 05-13-2011 at 10:12 PM..
  #119  
Old 05-13-2011, 10:17 PM
Tsuken Tsuken is offline
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I think Luclin and beyond ruined Everquest. I quit in the Luclin era.

As to why I quit I think... I played a bard. Selo's required an outdoor zone, but the indoor zones many. So going to Luclin often meant walking slow like everyone else. Except for the people who cast SoW before entering the zone. There was no obvious reason to not allow Selo's in those huge indoor areas, in the old world it was obvious, but some of these luclin indoor-zones were as big as outdoor-zones.

Oh and then there was the dreaded LFG and waiting for a group. Horrible. It eventually got to me.

And I didn't like corpse runs at all by the way, never have. But it did add the element of taking risk to the game.

After I quit EQ I didn't dare to pick up another MMO like WoW and waste more of my time.

I did play WoW, but not until the burning crusade expansion. I quit WoW soon after jumping through the burning legion portal though (or whatever it was called).
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Last edited by Tsuken; 05-13-2011 at 10:34 PM..
  #120  
Old 05-13-2011, 10:22 PM
Dojii Dojii is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eqdruid76 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
In light of all these "Let's think of all the different ways we can sabotage and ruin Project 1999" threads that are popping up, here's a counter-thread. What were the changs, nerfs, new game mechanics, graphics upgrades etc that happend on live that you NEVER want to see happen on Project1999?
Well Sony pretty much was capitalizing mostly off the addiction factor of the game and creating a never ending grindfest. Only till after the population had began to decay, did they begin implementing things like, Rest (u regen mana and hp faster once you're out of combat).

The AA's and constant expansion launch every 6 months, they pushed out less quality expansions and just as you were halfway through the one they just released you were like WTF a new expansion???

There are many reasons why it lost so much population... but overall my opinion is the general difficulty and grind after 10 expansions was too exhaustive for anyone with even a part time job to play.
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