ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Elderan]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and remember, Ned only walked away from that tower because Dayne was outnumbered 7 to 3.

5 of Ned's 7 people died while killing Daynes party of 3.

they cut Ned's dreams from the show, but here's what happened at the tower for anyone that wants to see/hear it:
http://youtu.be/v9Mp8MzAjAY

One theory is that Howland Reed warged into Arthur Dayne allowing Ned to kill him. Another is that Arthur Dayne is still alive and that Meera Reed is Jon Snows Twin.

I clearly have been reading http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/ too much.

[Tiggles]

Originally Posted by Elderan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One theory is that Howland Reed warged into Arthur Dayne allowing Ned to kill him. Another is that Arthur Dayne is still alive and that Meera Reed is Jon Snows Twin.

I clearly have been reading http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/ too much.

Arthur dayne is dead, he just got overwhelmed and killed. Ashara Dayne is alive and married Howland Reed living with them in secret.

She is the mother of Jojen and Meera reed.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Tiggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Arthur dayne is dead, he just got overwhelmed and killed. Ashara Dayne is alive and married Howland Reed living with them in secret.

She is the mother of Jojen and Meera reed.

yea, Arthur Dayne is confirmed dead.

as far as Ashara, there are two main theories:

Some reader of the series believe Lemore is the mother of Tyene Sand. Lemore is a Septa who has given birth before, as evidenced by the stretchmarks on her belly seen by Tyrion Lannister. She is also roughly in her mid 40's, and Tyene is in her early 20's, which would lend further support to the theory.

Evidence against

Tyene Sand has golden hair. Oberyn Martell and Lemore both have dark hair, making it unlikely that their daughter would have light hair. It is possible that Lemore dyes her hair to further conceal her identity, but that seems unnecessarily cautious. Further, if Lemore were Tyene's mother, it would be strange for her not to have communicated with her daughter or anyone else back in Dorne to give support to Aegon's legitimacy.

Ashara Dayne

Another possibility is that Lemore is actually Ashara Dayne, who did not in fact die after Robert’s Rebellion, but went to aid Aegon in Essos. However when observing Lemore on the Shy Maid Tyrion Lannister never makes note of her eye colour which, if she were Ashara, would be very striking, as Ashara's eyes were described as being a "haunting violet" colour.

the only chance we will have to confirm Lemore = Ashara, is for Barristan to see Lemore. as he was in love with Ashara, i think hed recognize her anywhere, through any disguise.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Elderan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One theory is that Howland Reed warged into Arthur Dayne allowing Ned to kill him. Another is that Arthur Dayne is still alive and that Meera Reed is Jon Snows Twin.

I clearly have been reading http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/ too much.

for reference, the books tell us that 1 in 10,000 can warg, and 1 in 10,000 wargs can greensight. just because Jojen has certain abilities doesn't mean his father had them. also warging into people is a very rare ability, one that i really doubt Howland had.

/tinfoil on

so i have never noticed it before, but Meera and Jon are indeed the same age (both are 16 years old when Eddard gets executed). and IF Lyanna had twins, i could MAYBE see Eddard allowing Howland to raise the kid to protect her. Furthermore IF Lyanna was knight of the laughing tree (which i do believe she was, i also believe Rhaegar did find her, discovered it was a female, fell in love and came back with only the armor saying he found it stuffed inside an empty tree) then that means Lyanna protected Howland at the tourney of harrenhall, giving him reason to take on Lyanna's daughter as his own ward. (for those curious, Jojen is ~3.5 years younger than Meera).

/tinfoil off

however, for Meera to be the product of R&L, she should have grey or purple eyes, and she should have dark brown or silver blond hair. Meera and Jojen both have regular brown hair and both have green eyes. we are never told who their mother is, and we are never given a description of Howland Reed. So while anything is possible, i can not believe they are related, as genetic traits are one thing that this author has never overlooked.

[Tiggles]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

for reference, the books tell us that 1 in 10,000 can warg, and 1 in 10,000 wargs can greensight. just because Jojen has certain abilities doesn't mean his father had them. also warging into people is a very rare ability, one that i really doubt Howland had.

/tinfoil on

so i have never noticed it before, but Meera and Jon are indeed the same age (both are 16 years old when Eddard gets executed). and IF Lyanna had twins, i could MAYBE see Eddard allowing Howland to raise the kid to protect her. Furthermore IF Lyanna was knight of the laughing tree (which i do believe she was, i also believe Rhaegar did find her, discovered it was a female, fell in love and came back with only the armor saying he found it stuffed inside an empty tree) then that means Lyanna protected Howland at the tourney of harrenhall, giving him reason to take on Lyanna's daughter as his own ward. (for those curious, Jojen is ~3.5 years younger than Meera).

/tinfoil off

however, for Meera to be the product of R&L, she should have grey or purple eyes, and she should have dark brown or silver blond hair. Meera and Jojen both have regular brown hair and both have green eyes. we are never told who their mother is, and we are never given a description of Howland Reed. So while anything is possible, i can not believe they are related, as genetic traits are one thing that this author has never overlooked.

Here is the Theory that Howland Reed and Ashara Dayne are the parents of Jojen and Meera Reed.

• The Tourney at Harrenhal: Howland Reed is watching Ashara and actually makes a list of all the people that she dances with. This has no bearing on the rest of the KotLT story, and yet it is mentioned. Why? Meera, who is telling the story, would have no reason to mention this to Bran and yet she does. Why?
  
  
• We are told by Barristan that Ashara had a daughter. If that daughter was not stillborn, and lived, Meera is one of the only candidates, due to being the right age and gender. She is about nine or ten months older than Jon, and therefore one of the only known characters born in the beginning of Robert's Rebellion.
  
  
• Jojen got grey water fever, which is odd because while it affects the Ironborn, you would think that the crannogmen would be immune to it. His eyes are moss-green, which is a color given to mark seers. But what color were they before the fever?
  
  
• Barristan Selmy, who loved Ashara, remarks that: "She wants fire, and Dorne sent her mud. You could make a poultice out of mud to cool a fever. You could plant seeds in mud and grow a crop to feed your children. Mud would nourish you, where fire would only consume you, but fools and children and young girls would choose fire every time." Considering how many things he has been wrong about so far, is he wrong about this too? Did Ashara choose an actual "mudman"?
  
  
• We are told that Ned would have died at the TOJ but for Howland Reed. What does this mean? Was it crannog magic, or was Howland Arthur's brother-in-law?
  
  
• Why was Ned so quick to defend Ashara if R+L=J? It would make sense if she was the wife of his bannerman.
  
  
• There is specific language over and over again with regards to the Reeds and Bran. Towers, Stars, Falling, and Summer come up constantly. Hints for Starfall, Palestone Tower, and the Summer Sea, perhaps?
  
  
• The Dornish are looked down on by the other kingsdoms, as are the crannogmen. The crannogmen are reviled for their guerrilla tactics, which are considered cowardly, something the Dornish also have in common with them. Howland has spent his life among the water, just as Ashara spent hers on the edges of the Summer Sea. House Reed also has an ongoing feud with House Frey, just as House Dayne has an ongoing feud with House Oakheart. Common ground for a romance?
  

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...e-meera-jojen/

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Tiggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is the Theory that Howland Reed and Ashara Dayne are the parents of Jojen and Meera Reed.

• The Tourney at Harrenhal: Howland Reed is watching Ashara and actually makes a list of all the people that she dances with. This has no bearing on the rest of the KotLT story, and yet it is mentioned. Why? Meera, who is telling the story, would have no reason to mention this to Bran and yet she does. Why?
  
  
• We are told by Barristan that Ashara had a daughter. If that daughter was not stillborn, and lived, Meera is one of the only candidates, due to being the right age and gender. She is about nine or ten months older than Jon, and therefore one of the only known characters born in the beginning of Robert's Rebellion.
  
  
• Jojen got grey water fever, which is odd because while it affects the Ironborn, you would think that the crannogmen would be immune to it. His eyes are moss-green, which is a color given to mark seers. But what color were they before the fever?
  
  
• Barristan Selmy, who loved Ashara, remarks that: "She wants fire, and Dorne sent her mud. You could make a poultice out of mud to cool a fever. You could plant seeds in mud and grow a crop to feed your children. Mud would nourish you, where fire would only consume you, but fools and children and young girls would choose fire every time." Considering how many things he has been wrong about so far, is he wrong about this too? Did Ashara choose an actual "mudman"?
  
  
• We are told that Ned would have died at the TOJ but for Howland Reed. What does this mean? Was it crannog magic, or was Howland Arthur's brother-in-law?
  
  
• Why was Ned so quick to defend Ashara if R+L=J? It would make sense if she was the wife of his bannerman.
  
  
• There is specific language over and over again with regards to the Reeds and Bran. Towers, Stars, Falling, and Summer come up constantly. Hints for Starfall, Palestone Tower, and the Summer Sea, perhaps?
  
  
• The Dornish are looked down on by the other kingsdoms, as are the crannogmen. The crannogmen are reviled for their guerrilla tactics, which are considered cowardly, something the Dornish also have in common with them. Howland has spent his life among the water, just as Ashara spent hers on the edges of the Summer Sea. House Reed also has an ongoing feud with House Frey, just as House Dayne has an ongoing feud with House Oakheart. Common ground for a romance?
  

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...e-meera-jojen/

1) Meera is surprised Bran hasnt heard this story because it also involves Brandon Stark asking Ashara to dance with Eddard, and while she agrees, she prefers Brandon. we also have a mention from Barristan describing that he had eyes for her that night as well, but not the balls to act on it. Ashara is important, agreed. but i truly believe she is disguised as Septa Lemore and traveling with Connington and Aegon.

2) agreed. the time line fits for her birth. but nothing else. Howland Reed would have had to stay behind in Dorne after Eddard returned Dawn to the Dayne family. Jon was conceived ~9 months before eddard shows up at the tower. Meera would have to have been conceived shortly after, and would have had to leave with Howland shortly after being born as Ashara slew herself (or faked her death)

3) Ashara died (or left westeros) in 283AC, Jojen is born in 286AC

4) but Howland isnt from Dorne. hes from greywater watch in the the neck.

5) it means that had it been left to straight 1 v 1, Arthur Dayne would murder Eddard 10 times outta 10 times.

6) because eddard has had a thing for Ashara since the tourny. remember he wasnt suppose to marry cat at that point as Brandon and their father were still alive.

7) maybe. or possible red herrings

8) a lot in common for sure. but, still not possible due to time and geography. Jojen cant be ashara's kid, Meera only can be if Howland stayed at least 9 months with the daynes after Eddard dropped off Dawn.

[Ryndar]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

for reference, the books tell us that 1 in 10,000 can warg, and 1 in 10,000 wargs can greensight. just because Jojen has certain abilities doesn't mean his father had them. also warging into people is a very rare ability, one that i really doubt Howland had.

/tinfoil on

so i have never noticed it before, but Meera and Jon are indeed the same age (both are 16 years old when Eddard gets executed). and IF Lyanna had twins, i could MAYBE see Eddard allowing Howland to raise the kid to protect her. Furthermore IF Lyanna was knight of the laughing tree (which i do believe she was, i also believe Rhaegar did find her, discovered it was a female, fell in love and came back with only the armor saying he found it stuffed inside an empty tree) then that means Lyanna protected Howland at the tourney of harrenhall, giving him reason to take on Lyanna's daughter as his own ward. (for those curious, Jojen is ~3.5 years younger than Meera).

/tinfoil off

however, for Meera to be the product of R&L, she should have grey or purple eyes, and she should have dark brown or silver blond hair. Meera and Jojen both have regular brown hair and both have green eyes. we are never told who their mother is, and we are never given a description of Howland Reed. So while anything is possible, i can not believe they are related, as genetic traits are one thing that this author has never overlooked.

Aegon (according to Tyrion) is also the same age as Jon/Meera.

Howland used a net to help Eddard against Dayne. Meera uses this ame tactic against Summer in the God's Wood, saying her Father taught her.

Eddard killed a disabled Dayne, when he couldn't defend himself, because "The King's Guard do not bend the knee so easily/flee."

Eddard told Ashara the real way her brother died, for the love his Brother Brandon and Her had. This caused her to kill herself.

[Nocsucow]

Welp, first Sunday without GoT fucking sucked but, my wife started watching GoT and she's on E10 of first season and she's loving it....so I get to re watch all of them with her... And she thinks Jon snow is sexy as fuck lol guess I need to go buy a black curly wig and a 2h battle sword

[LulzSect]

great theories

i love it

[Pringles]

I binged S4 over the weekend, so now I can read a bit more of this thread again [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow.... great season, probably my favorite. The wall battle was so good. However I couldnt help but feel this about Oberyn (I was googling for inigo and going to make my own but someone beat me to it, so apparently I am not alone):

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