P99 Auctions is Closing

[Thulack]

Originally Posted by Tuurin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basic economics: Traders rely on price variation (buy low, sell high). If everyone pretty much agrees on a price for an item (historical and average price data provided by auction site) then trading becomes much less lucrative, since nobody really sells for less than value and nobody really buys for more than the value.

But if there's no set price (no auction site, no historical data) then it's the wild west again and those with more information (tunnelquesters) have a big advantage.

A item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Someone with more money then time probably is fine with paying more then market price for a item to have it then. I see it all the time playing FIFA. People buy players off the market for 2x their value because they dont bother sorting through the 200 of the same card for sale just to find the lowest priced one.

[Triode]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My point is, resellers flourished while P99 auctions was up, and it most likely was sabotaged by people making far more than some extra 100 plats on some low tier items here and there.

I don't disagree with the latter half of this statement, but I question the former.

At least during my extensive playtime on live (vanilla through pop, and as a serious raider starting during velious), resellers profited based on superior knowledge and/or their ability to convince buyers to spend more than an item was really worth. The knowledge afforded to casuals by p99auctions would tend to undercut these factors, except in the case, as mentioned, of certain players who presumably used alts/friends to manipulate the pricing data for certain items they were farming.

That said, in the brief time I have been playing on p99, I have watched prices decline significantly on a lot of big ticket items, including torpor and fungi's, and on popular mid-tier items like PSC's and SCHW's. So I'd be curious which items folks saw going the other direction due to manipulation? My take is that prices were falling on the whole due to better market information and, presumably, higher supply of certain desirable items since players were spending more time playing (thanks to the auction sites) and less time lingering in EC. This is beneficial to most everyone aside from the p99 1% tunnelquesters.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Triode [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't disagree with the latter half of this statement, but I question the former.

At least during my extensive playtime on live (vanilla through pop, and as a serious raider starting during velious), resellers profited based on superior knowledge and/or their ability to convince buyers to spend more than an item was really worth. The knowledge afforded to casuals by p99auctions would tend to undercut these factors, except in the case, as mentioned, of certain players who presumably used alts/friends to manipulate the pricing data for certain items they were farming.

That said, in the brief time I have been playing on p99, I have watched prices decline significantly on a lot of big ticket items, including torpor and fungi's, and on popular mid-tier items like PSC's and SCHW's. So I'd be curious which items folks saw going the other direction due to manipulation? My take is that prices were falling on the whole due to better market information and, presumably, higher supply of certain desirable items since players were spending more time playing (thanks to the auction sites) and less time lingering in EC. This is beneficial to most everyone aside from the p99 1% tunnelquesters.

Whether or not P99 auctions is up, it's inevitable that more items will flood the market over time and reduce prices. Only way it won't is if someone truly has a monopoly on an item and keeps the price elevated.

I have nothing against P99, I can work with it or without it in EC, and I can see how people who never go to ec or not often would find the P99 site helpful. It was convenient, no doubt.

I will miss some of the features like the live stream, that was convenient to have when you were not in ec.

I will not miss how I get tells 1week later for an item because someone looked the item up, and seen me selling it some time in the past. That got annoying.

Pros and cons, pros and cons to the P99 auction site.

R.I.P. P99 Auction Site.

[Lojik]

Originally Posted by Thulack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Someone with more money then time probably is fine with paying more then market price for a item to have it then. I see it all the time playing FIFA. People buy players off the market for 2x their value because they dont bother sorting through the 200 of the same card for sale just to find the lowest priced one.

Don't think anyone's arguing that their are fair or unfair prices. Yes, an item is worth whatever people are willing to pay, but most people try to maximize the gains from trade. Despite whatever people may think, goods are not traded until both parties perceive the item they are trading for to be more valuable than what they are trading. Most people have a certain level of price sensitivity and will do at least a little bit of research, any more research required increases transactions cost.

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I started on P99 in 2012, took a long break and came back less than a year ago. Originally, I never verified through email my forum account, and lost that email sent from P99, so had to use a new email and do it over again when i came back to the game. The join date you see doesn't reflect accurately how long I have been on the server.

When I first started on P99 I used to use wiki for prices, there was no P99 auctions. I learned about P99 auctions when I noticed wiki prices were not updated frequently and the prices were old, so I started asking how people checked prices.

Your examples and what you use as proof of how P99 auctions made prices fair and less varied are strictly subjective personal experiences of your own. You have no hard data that proves your case, only what "seems" to be the case. That being said...

I personally could manipulate the P99 auction prices without even putting hardly any effort into it. I did it. This isn't subjective, this is fact.

You can stand by your opinion that P99 kept prices regulated fairly etc., but that's not really the case because the fact is P99 auction prices were being manipulated by sellers.

That "monthly average price" of items, where do you think it came from?

It came from prices that were collected from EC that were set by the players, and I know it's hard to fathom, but many players understood this and put up false advertisements for the sole purpose of setting the price for items they commonly farmed and sold.

You are correct when you say prices had a much less variance I agree with that, because the prices set were easy to go look up and read from P99 auctions... That doesn't mean those prices were not fixed by players selling specific items or that those listed prices gave a fair price for an items actual plat worth.

Not once have I argued that prices are more or less fair with or without p99auctions, nor do I consider my experiences to be proof that dealing in the ec tunnel was easier with that around. However, i find the claims about manipulation to be absurd. You'd need definite proof of 2 things. 1) amount of manipulation before p99 auctions, and 2) definite proof of the extent of it during p99 auctions. You gave an example that you"manipulated" prices on p99 auctions, yet do you really think no one would do that without p99 auctions, or that the wiki prices aren't manipulated at all? If it turned out that the manipulation was much worse before p99auctions, can you really say that the fact that you could manipulate the numbers still be a negative for this site?

The only thing we know is that readily available information (that would be harder for people not in the tunnel all the time to gather) is lost, so for most people who aren't ec traders the transactions costs just went up. Even for ec traders transactions prices just went up, but some will look to make gains to offset this by informational advantages.

Side note about resellers: i think you have to break these into two categories: some know that their cost of selling an item is lower since they'll be in ec anyway, so they'll pay a little below the going rate for an item and sell for a little higher (think of this as a convenience fee, like how prices on things at 7-11 are slightly more expensive.) I think for the average player this is a good thing. You then have sellers who try to stretch the margins by a lot, and instead of facilitating trade they actually stymie it, these are the ones I feel like most people gripe about.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not once have I argued... *snip snip snip*

We can debate it's pros and cons all day long. doesn't matter anymore.

R.I.P. P99 Auction site. You were great while you lasted.

[LordRayken]

It's probably resellers that did it.

[Mantis187]

well it was awesome while it lasted

[demokatt]

Atleast I hope they keep the site up as it is today, it is an awsome way to find stuff for certain slots u didnt know existed. Much better than the wiki equipment lists.

[Lobus]

I hope they take the offer from the server guides and other experts in the thread to shore up the site... or release their code so someone else can take on the mantle for the community.

They did a great service and it's not right that they got treated this way but hopefully the community can come together to save this great resource.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Lobus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hope they take the offer from the server guides and other experts in the thread to shore up the site... or release their code so someone else can take on the mantle for the community.

They did a great service and it's not right that they got treated this way but hopefully the community can come together to save this great resource.

Just let it die, man.

You will recover faster and begin to move on once you have accepted the fact that P99AuctionSite has died, and isn't coming back.

It's time to stop looking backwards, and to look forward to future wonders and adventure!

You only slow the healing process of your broken heart by hanging on to past memories of P99AuctionSite.

As soon as you realize this was but one auction site amongst a sea of many, you will find it easier to find auction elf sim satisfaction elsewhere.

I know it's hard. I do. You can do it though. You are strong, and you WILL find another, someday.