let's get real about item loot

[Colgate]

i would rather loot someone's dwarven ringmail tunic than their trak bp(excluding a few classes)

[Lowlife]

Originally Posted by DrScience [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a stretch is making the argument for item looting inside bags by using an example of a warrior killing a shadow stepping caster... Let me be the first to say, that is not going to happen, unless the caster was sitting down with 1 health.

I'm not sure what the rest of your argument is about - I wasn't even discussing "randomized loot" because it's a horrible idea. I realize you want to push your idea, it's human nature, but it's a bad idea.

the same could be said regarding your posts.

however can you challenge my (actually smedys) claims aside from just saying that they're bad?

The difference in philosophy is I'm trying to figure out a system that would be enjoyable for people outside of those of us that spent our time on Live on RZ, or played other PvP Boxes. Those are people we need to attract, despite item loot as a concept hampering that, to bolster population. Randomized loot is more palatable to bluebies than a system that you or I would personally find more enjoyable. Its a comprehensive solution. Likewise, it adds the YT element that I think everyone would find enjoyable, an element other variants do not include.

[Lowlife]

Because it actually can add more emotion to the item looting experience than full item loot. Its why gambling is more exciting than shopping.

[Kastro]

Randomized loot is a very bad idea...

A. it is complicated

B. it doesnt allow the player to choose what he is willing to lose..

C: Punishes melees and Hybrids way more than casters since they can easily gate and bank everything...

D: removes skill from the equation... I used the Prenerf COS in Combat all the time... Never lost it because it or its bag was always on my cursor when using it...

E: Way more Risk than reward... NO REASON to log on and fight if losing an item is totally out of your control... Under RZ rules it was almost fully under your control on whether you could lose a certain item or not... As long as almost all gear is droppable and no players are running around in full Uber or mostly no drop it works great... Players running around in superior No drop Gear with ZERO risk is what broke Rallos Zek as a PVP server.... Not Item Loot...

F. Its not fun either...


There are 2 workable Item Loot systems I've seen discussed so far:

A

Rallos Zek Style ( bags and inside bags not lootable) with Firona Vie loot rules so almost everything is droppable.. So if things look bad you can bag and have zero risk.. you are just most likely gonna die... Or you wear your gear and risk it...

And with very little no drop you wont have people in Uber no drop gear stomping people that didn't farm a suit of no drop... Also this will allow more casual players and guild to trade for or PVP for good enough gear to compete...

B
The other option is Everything starting Droppable and is Flagged no Drop when Used or Equiped... So you loot planar.. it is droppable.. you can give to another guildy, sell it trade it... You put it on... you have a window pops up that asks you if you are going to bind this to you... If yes it is No NO DROP forever...

In this system Items that you have equiped are NO DROP... Use the Fungi.. NO DROP ... Use the Manastone... NO DROP... did not use the umbral BP in your backpack? It is Lootable... In this system it would be best if no gear is never nerfed/ no longer drops... so all players, including new ones are on an even playing field.. you want a Guise... Camp it... if you cast with it... it binds to you... Potions ect same thing... Un used it is lootable.. used it is droppable... SO no player will lose items they need in PVP.... but there is still Items to be won in PVP....

My preference is sytem A since it will make for a very active economy... system 2 is essentially what EQ2 pvp had and worked pretty well also.. That would be the less punishing version... But in both cases the winner gets to pick the item he wants out of what is available...

[Vexenu]

Look at the amount of mental gymnastics required for coming up with a workable item loot system. The complexity of these ideas is evidence of their shortcomings. If the system is good it will be simple and elegant. No ruleset that relies on such complicated machinations to determine something as simple as the looting of items from a corpse can be viable.

DrScience's suggested removal of no drop items is an example of a workable item loot proposal, (although I strongly disagree with it) due to its simplicity. The old RZ system was also fairly simple itself. All of these other proposals are overcomplicated, arbitrary, and highly un-classic.

If item loot cannot be implemented in a manner that is simple and does not greatly deviate from classic PvP, then it shouldn't be implemented at all.

[Lowlife]

Originally Posted by Kastro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Randomized loot is a very bad idea...

A. it is complicated

B. it doesnt allow the player to choose what he is willing to lose..

C. Its not fun either...

A. No it isn't.

B. How so? If its on you, you can lose it, it just allows for a little more leeway in wearing high dollar gear, rewards bagging but doesn't require it.

C. Depends on if you're getting looted or looting someone, it could be more fun. It makes the highs higher and the lows lower. Think about it. Polling numbers seem to indicate Blues are more receptive to this variant than traditional RZ variants.

[heartbrand]

See sig, Red Dawn recruiting players on a server that actually exists, PST for info

[Kergan]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Has this been mentioned? If not, discuss.

-4 level range
-Item loot of any droppable
-Bagged items included
-Primary/Secondary excluded
-Inventory slots (primary 8) excluded.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So:
-Can loot droppables from bags, but can't take the bag itself.
-Can't take items occupying a bag slot. Max chance of "bagging" 8 items, if all inventory slots are empty.

Hmm, interesting concept.

I think it's a given that primary/secondary need to be excluded. A melee losing his best weapon would be like being able to loot ice comet out of a wizards spell book.

I also think a 4 level range is best. Hell, if I had my way it would be a blue server until level 55. The game is so horrible unbalanced up until then (not like its great after I know...) because of the way spell levels and abilities work. Fighting a level 33 shaman before envenomed breath and a pet vs fighting one with it at level 34 is completely different. Not to mention it gets people to the point they are so time invested they aren't going to rage quit over a lost item. But I assume everyone in the PVP community will think that is the worst idea ever so the 4 level range is good.

What about making it so 1 bag slot is protected? Essentially the same as your system above without the PVE impact of not being able to carry around more than a single bag - because that is exactly what it will end up. 1 bag for food/drink/peridots, etc, 7 open slots for saving your items. With slot 1 protected you could have one unlootable bag and the rest lootable.

[Runya]

Originally Posted by Smedy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not sure if i approve of 7 backpacks on item loot pvp server, i'd say rogue terrible and mage was afk

Jeez Vamp i remember that retard lol

[Runya]

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FU was definitely a small elitist guild. I never joined them, choosing to stay in tB until I left for Sullon Zek, but I had a lot of respect for guys like Lugoj, Rienne, Nilear, etc.

I don't think the ruletset will have much if any effect on the server now. The 52+ game is pretty much a choice between Nihilum and doing nothing, although Red Dawn has started to do some raiding. The moment of truth is coming for them though, as the people excited about raiding Fear/Hate now will quickly lust for greater loots. Either they stay and help push Red Dawn into higher end raiding or they'll bail for Nihilum. The low population of R99 makes it very difficult to have two power guilds, and I think until we see a sustained 250-300 people things wont change much.

Lugoj/Nilear and such were good players but East Power/Tb had alot of bads also.....Remember Rodmantu? haha that monk made me lol.I had more fun playing with the germans.Orden de w/e