Necro, how do you not choose Iksar?

[Daldaen]

The use in regen items is that you don't have to waste time in clicking heal items and you don't need targets to click heal items, increasing twitch efficiency or damage efficiency. I'm fairly sure the soul well staff blocks Splurt (our most efficient DoT) also.

The DPS from life drains help but they aren't efficient. Their resistance is a factor but most any mob a Necro will be soloing, will not be resistant enough to warrant sacrificing half the efficiency for the more reliable spell landing.

It does have to constantly tick down. That's how the spell works. If it doesn't you're clicking it off, losing mana regen, and wasting time rememing and recasting the spell. Again, inefficient and tedious.

See above about resistances, almost never solo are there resistant mobs that make the efficiency of a life drain greater than a resistable DoT. In high end group locations, like Velious or Juggs in Sebilis, mobs generally live long enough for 1-2min DoTs unless you have charmed pets. It would depend on the group makeup I think.

Good point on solo Necro charming. A better example would've been fear kiting or root rotting where you are using DoTs exclusively.

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What can an Iksar Necro do that a gnome Necro cannot.

An Iksar Necro with 10th Ring and Z-Heart can AFK with Demi Lich on, and sit down, and not die. A non-Iksar would die under the same circumstances.

An Iksar Necro can receive 0 buffs at a raid or arrive late, never have to engage mobs and get on aggro list, and twitch without losing any HP at all by using the above two items.

A maxed out Necromancer still requires targets either via Holgresh Beads/Stalking Probes (meaning you can't have a pet) or a mob which isn't magic immune that they may cast upon to click their staff or ring. In down times between pulls or raid attempts, when twitch efficiency is key to getting clerics ready to go again, an Iksar will be able to twitch without wasting someone's mana on heals or a slot in a bard group.

Demi Lich isn't similar to Torpor shaman. Demi Lich is a constant ticking down. Canni is cast, and selected when it's cast. You can click off, remem, and recast Demi but that's tedious and inefficient. Regeneration benefits Necromancers the most of any class because they should always be operating under Lich and therefore always losing HP. This makes slow HP regen ANYTHING BUT marginal. Thats the most important stat you could have. It determines how frequently you need to waste mana healing yourself.

The means by which a Necromancer heals themself are either lifetaps or leach DoTs. Unfortunately both are inefficient means of DPS. Necro DoTs range from 6.7-4 DMG/Mana (looking at Splurt, Pyro, Cessation, Plague), whereas the leach DoTs are barely over 2.2 DMG/Mana. Basically they are half as efficient as the other DoTs. Meaning you only want to drop your damage efficiency, when you need heals. Iksars need to heal less and therefore are able to utilize more efficient means of damage. Whether that's more charms, more DoTs, more mobs being root rotted, etc.

This efficiency allows a Necromancer that is an Iksar to likely clear a whole other room in HS that a non-Iksar couldn't have because they were spending too much of their mana healing themselves back up.

Pretty hard to argue with that post. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Next subject. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Plz refrain from insults, try to stick to debate.

I never insulted you. I informed you that you lack understanding. Don't be so defensive.

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't ask that. I asked what camp opens up to an Iksar Necro that you can't do with another necro.

This type of binary thinking is why you don't get it, and suggests that you didn't roll an iksar and are attempting to rationalize your sub-optimal choice. You're pretending like the only way regen would matter is if it enabled you to camp some item that would be impossible without it, and ignoring the fact that it makes everything you do safer, faster, and easier. Don't try and say that things are already safe, fast, and easy, either. I used relative terms which don't depend on whether or not you're content without bonus regen.

There's nothing wrong with not picking the best race. There's no shame in picking aesthetics over stats if you just own it, but trying to convince yourself that regen doesn't matter by pretending its advantages are trivial in order to make yourself feel better about it is embarrassing.

[mrshzzit]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never insulted you. I informed you that you lack understanding. Don't be so defensive.



This type of binary thinking is why you don't get it, and suggests that you didn't roll an iksar and are attempting to rationalize your sub-optimal choice. You're pretending like the only way regen would matter is if it enabled you to camp some item that would be impossible without it, and ignoring the fact that it makes everything you do safer, faster, and easier. Don't try and say that things are already safe, fast, and easy, either. I used relative terms which don't depend on whether or not you're content without bonus regen.

There's nothing wrong with not picking the best race. There's no shame in picking aesthetics over stats if you just own it, but trying to convince yourself that regen doesn't matter by pretending its advantages are trivial in order to make yourself feel better about it is embarrassing.

Lol calm down, you rage in every post. Im a 60 iksar necro and that regen means jack when u can cast 1 spell and heal for 1150 hp while doing go0d dmg.

[pharmakos]

i don't understand how this debate has gone on for 13 pages. iksar is obviously better in a min/max sense. whether or not that matters to you is up to you, but to say that iksar regen doesn't matter in a numbers sense is just insanity.

[ddxdy]

This thread is either full of trolls, or full of people who have not played both an iksar and a non-iksar 50+.

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by mrshzzit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol calm down, you rage in every post. Im a 60 iksar necro and that regen means jack when u can cast 1 spell and heal for 1150 hp while doing go0d dmg.

You have a very poor understanding of emotions.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by pharmakos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i don't understand how this debate has gone on for 13 pages. iksar is obviously better in a min/max sense. whether or not that matters to you is up to you, but to say that iksar regen doesn't matter in a numbers sense is just insanity.

It matters but the question is if it matters a lot or it matters a little.

You have a very poor understanding of emotions.

He's right. You have a poor habit of being condescending. It's not conducive to a good discussion.

This type of binary thinking is why you don't get it, and suggests that you didn't roll an iksar and are attempting to rationalize your sub-optimal choice. You're pretending like the only way regen would matter is if it enabled you to camp some item that would be impossible without it, and ignoring the fact that it makes everything you do safer, faster, and easier. Don't try and say that things are already safe, fast, and easy, either. I used relative terms which don't depend on whether or not you're content without bonus regen.

There's nothing wrong with not picking the best race. There's no shame in picking aesthetics over stats if you just own it, but trying to convince yourself that regen doesn't matter by pretending its advantages are trivial in order to make yourself feel better about it is embarrassing.

Looking at things in an abstract sense is great and all but there comes a certain point where you have to be able to apply your theoretics to real situations.

A perfectly good question is to ask what an Iksar necro can do vs another necro. I challenge that you are not digging deep enough to understand.

I challenge that it does not necessarily make things faster, safer and easier in every situation and in most cases that it does, it is extremely marginal.

The use in regen items is that you don't have to waste time in clicking heal items and you don't need targets to click heal items, increasing twitch efficiency or damage efficiency. I'm fairly sure the soul well staff blocks Splurt (our most efficient DoT) also.

How often are you playing necro where you don't have any spare time anywhere?

The DPS from life drains help but they aren't efficient. Their resistance is a factor but most any mob a Necro will be soloing, will not be resistant enough to warrant sacrificing half the efficiency for the more reliable spell landing.

If you're soloing mobs around level 50, resists are a factor. I'd say if you're doing a camp where racial hp is a factor, mob resists are also likely to be a factor. Deflux is also really fast too which is a cool situational tool. I've had many group situations where I've had too much mana and nuking things down with Deflux was useful.

It does have to constantly tick down. That's how the spell works. If it doesn't you're clicking it off, losing mana regen, and wasting time rememing and recasting the spell. Again, inefficient and tedious.

It's extra work to do but I don't believe it to hinder anything realistically.

I'd like to see the necro play who doesn't have 2 seconds to play around with putting demi lich on and off. If he's that busy with his necro, I'd like to see what he's doing.

See above about resistances, almost never solo are there resistant mobs that make the efficiency of a life drain greater than a resistable DoT. In high end group locations, like Velious or Juggs in Sebilis, mobs generally live long enough for 1-2min DoTs unless you have charmed pets. It would depend on the group makeup I think.

IMO if you're not playing around with undeads, you might as well play another class. Without something to charm you are half the class you could be with the monster pet dps.

In your example with velious or juggs in seb it should be noted that this only matters if you're not talking about a maxed out necro which has access to lifetap clickies. Even without lifetap clickies, a non iksar necro only has to tap once every couple fights. I don't believe that to be game changing. The reason I bring up clickies is because a lot of people are discussing this from a min-max perspective. So if we are talking about a maxed out necro we have to include free lifetaps.

Good point on solo Necro charming. A better example would've been fear kiting or root rotting where you are using DoTs exclusively.

I'd argue what useful camps are out there for a necro to fear kite or root rot that will challenge your necro.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The use in regen items is that you don't have to waste time in clicking heal items and you don't need targets to click heal items, increasing twitch efficiency or damage efficiency. I'm fairly sure the soul well staff blocks Splurt (our most efficient DoT) also.

EDIT: Soul Well stacks with Splurt. Vexing Mordinia overrides Soul Well. Soul Well does not override Vexing Mordinia. I'm not sure, but there appears to be evidence here that the healing effect of Soul Well isn't overridden by Vexing Mordinia, only the damage component. You'll see when I cast Vexing Mordinia that it overrides the Soul Well, making it drop off... And then many seconds later, out of nowhere, "The bond fades.", which is the message one gets side by side with "Your Soul Well spell has worn off." to say the bond has ended. This may be because Vexing Mordinia gives you a buff "Vexing Mordinia Recourse", while Soul Well doesn't give you a buff for the healing.

[Fri Jul 24 16:16:10 2015] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:13 2015] Guard Quallith's feet adhere to the ground.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:13 2015] Targeted (NPC): Guard Yandellen
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:15 2015] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:18 2015] Guard Yandellen's feet adhere to the ground.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:18 2015] Targeted (NPC): Guard Quallith
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:18 2015] You begin casting Soul Well.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:18 2015] Your Shissar Seance Staff begins to glow.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:32 2015] Guard Quallith staggers.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:34 2015] You begin casting Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:36 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 11 damage from your Soul Well.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:38 2015] Guard Quallith's body begins to splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:42 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 23 damage from your Soul Well.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:42 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 11 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:48 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 35 damage from your Soul Well.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:48 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 23 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:54 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 47 damage from your Soul Well.
[Fri Jul 24 16:16:54 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 35 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:00 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 59 damage from your Soul Well.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:00 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 47 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:06 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 71 damage from your Soul Well.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:06 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 59 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:12 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 83 damage from your Soul Well.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:12 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 71 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:17 2015] You begin casting Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:18 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 95 damage from your Soul Well.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:18 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 83 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:22 2015] Vexing Mordinia strengthens your life force.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:22 2015] Your Soul Well spell has worn off.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:22 2015] Guard Quallith staggers under the curse of Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:24 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:24 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 95 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:30 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:30 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 107 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:33 2015] The bond fades.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:35 2015] You begin casting Soul Well.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:35 2015] Your Shissar Seance Staff begins to glow.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:36 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:36 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 119 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:42 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:42 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 131 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:48 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:48 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 143 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:48 2015] Your spell did not take hold.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:54 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jul 24 16:17:54 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 155 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Jul 24 16:18:00 2015] Guard Quallith has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jul 24 16:18:00 2015] You have slain Guard Quallith!
[Fri Jul 24 16:18:00 2015] Your faction standing with CoalitionofTradeFolkIll could not possibly get any worse.
[Fri Jul 24 16:18:00 2015] Your faction standing with FreeportMilitia could not possibly get any worse.
[Fri Jul 24 16:18:00 2015] Your faction standing with KnightsofTruth could not possibly get any better.
[Fri Jul 24 16:18:00 2015] Your faction standing with PriestsofMarr could not possibly get any better.
[Fri Jul 24 16:18:02 2015] You begin casting Feign Death.
[Fri Jul 24 16:18:21 2015] The Mordinia fades.

[Daldaen]

It's not about not having spare time. It's about wasting time doing something and losing a med tick here and there, just because your race regens less, and therefore by definition is less efficient.

I agree that charming is fantastic but suggesting you should play a different class if you aren't playing undead is dumb, let's be honest here. If that were the case there would be 0 Necros in Velious since Undead populate I believe 2 zones. ToFS and DN (and only bone dragon traps). Either way the # of Undead there is extremely minuscule and Necros are still useful.

Soloing summoners as a Necro is pretty inefficient, so you're generally restricted to soloing pre-51 mobs. Unless you can charm, again only works in Kunark at high-end.

At 60 with Demi Lich, let's say you have 1500 HP. A gnome dies in 6 minutes, and Iksar dies in 10.6minutes. If you want to stay above half health, the gnome must lifetap every 3 minutes, Iksars only have to every 5 minutes. This adds up as the gnome is having to take more time standing to cast life drains or click lifetap clickies, and loses out on more med ticks. Over the course of 10 minutes that Iksar casts just 2 life drains and the non-Iksar casts 3. That's 500 mana back you can spend on other things. Like a root and 2 splurts on another extra mob for example.

You won't find that an Iksar Necromancer can kill mob X and a non Iksar can't. That's not what this is about. You will find an Iksar Necro can root rot more without having to devote as much mana to healing himself, therefore being able to put it towards more damage.

Anywho, we are all just skeletons in the end-game, why not be the one which dies less fast?