New sneak mechanics = trainfest?

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The lack of knowledge 15 years ago is the only reason these tactics weren't used then as wel. Your opinion on the raid scene doesn't matter as you have already stated you don't raid. It's funny how much someone will bitch about something that they don't even partake in. Perhaps p99 isn't the server for you if the only way you can suggest to fix something is to make completely unclassic changes to it...

Why would he raid if it sucks? He'd probably raid if it didn't suck. Your argument sucks.

[bum3]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why would he raid if it sucks? He'd probably raid if it didn't suck. Your argument sucks.

I'm agreeing with Ravager for the first time.

15 years ago the tactics weren't used because, at least on my server, when a raid was in a zone pulling.. say fear. No other guild was allowed to zone in to disrupt or compete. This changed in Velious when guilds were allowed to each take a hall. So we had a council that was formed and created rotations to keep from being disbanded by the server GMs and new guilds entering the raid force had to be given chances in the rotations. Was this not the case with every server?

[Phatez]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eh...Still pretty trivial. The only thing that would completely change gameplay mechanics is rooting of Dragons. Which won't happen on P99.

You must have take a break from the raid scene. The way dragons were pulled was with a rogue bound at ZI (doesn't work now because leash) and the way trains were done was with a wizard bound in north(doesn't work because leash). So yea... it completely changes the mechanics on how things were pulled.

[Sancta]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seeing the widespread abuse of clickies on the server, it's time to take a serious look into disabling this major crutch that the so-called raiders utilize to conquer content.

1. Remove recharging items.

2. Make significant nerfs to said items that people seem intent on exploiting. (clicky complete heals, DA idols, easily obtained clicky slow items, etc.)

3. Seeing it is near impossible to stop all the exploitive tactics p99 raiders are intent on using, raid mobs, particularly dragons need to be rooted or have such a tight leash they cannot be pulled to any zonelines, period. This will force the fights to happen as they always were meant to.

Make the raiders actually have to fight and raid the way EQ1 was designed to, and stop this abomination of cheating the system for pixels. These whining, exploit-using players have milked dragons for easy pixels far too long, and it's time to make p99 raiding great again.

Crawling to big raid bosses, the intrigue and build up is what made raiding so exciting on classic. The insta-gib, pull to the zoneline crap these players literally pull should be stopped, and pixels should be earned from this point on.

These changes alone would create a far more immersive experience while raiding, and a true fulfillment of accomplishing something in an elfsim would be present again.

hardcore raiders would finally have the true challenge of competing against one another as they always remind us they want more than anything, that being a true competition of the best raid guilds against one another, proving who has what it really takes to conquer the games content in the way it was meant to be.

Remove socking, and "racing", and bring back raiding and crawling.



***Yes, maybe some of these changes wouldn't be "classic", but let's be real here players here on p99 are not playing with the same (lack) of knowledge players on live (classic) had with regards to all the tricks and exploits they now are aware of and intent on using. Seeing these same players have no self control and will always take the easiest road provided to milk maximum pixels for minimal effort, the devs here have no choice but to alter the raid meta with significant changes and rooting mobs/nerfing clickies would be a good start.

I honestly think you have access to, and partake in, a wide variety of drugs on a daily basis without rest.

Just because you couldn't cut it raiding on p99 and now your current guild can't compete or have a rotation doesn't mean mechanics should change to suit your personal needs. Every person past 50 who plays this game and knows about clickies uses clickies.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by bum3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm agreeing with Ravager for the first time.

15 years ago the tactics weren't used because, at least on my server, when a raid was in a zone pulling.. say fear. No other guild was allowed to zone in to disrupt or compete. This changed in Velious when guilds were allowed to each take a hall. So we had a council that was formed and created rotations to keep from being disbanded by the server GMs and new guilds entering the raid force had to be given chances in the rotations. Was this not the case with every server?

There were no rotations for anything on xev for instance, NToV went to whoever was fastest and got aary. They then got NToV for 2 days after everything was spawned, everything else was a straight race while in era. There were 2 sometimes 3 guilds on the top all racing for the same mobs. There was no PnP policy enforced by guides on Xev. Shit I remember one instance in sky where we cleared all the way up to 7 just to have some group who camped out up there log in and kill all the mobs that could drop the mage crown while we were on 6. The guide who responded told us tough luck.

The competition on Xev ended up just getting worse as Lucan and PoP were released where guilds would cockblock others from getting flags and keys. Just because you remember rotation doesn't mean every other or even a majority of servers used them, let alone enforced them. I just don't understand the entitlement people have when they think they deserve the same shot at stuff while committing 1/5th the time as other people do.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Phatez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You must have take a break from the raid scene. The way dragons were pulled was with a rogue bound at ZI (doesn't work now because leash) and the way trains were done was with a wizard bound in north(doesn't work because leash). So yea... it completely changes the mechanics on how things were pulled.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Use necros, bards and Coth Bots for the same results.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Sancta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I honestly think you have access to, and partake in, a wide variety of drugs on a daily basis without rest.

Just because you couldn't cut it raiding on p99 and now your current guild can't compete or have a rotation doesn't mean mechanics should change to suit your personal needs. Every person past 50 who plays this game and knows about clickies uses clickies.

Personal insults and assumptions aside, I hardly think what you do on raids here is remotely competitive.

You basically can't beat 17 year old game content without exploiting an endless amount of clickies or pulling mobs to zonelines to kill.

I don't raid here because it's full of toxic, greedy neckbeards that lose all moral compass as soon as they see pixels they want.

me not raiding here has nothing to do with not being able to do it, but instead more so of me not wanting to do it.

Devs made changes. Devs will be making more changes. Deal with it.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personal insults and assumptions aside, I hardly think what you do on raids here is remotely competitive.

You basically can't beat 17 year old game content without exploiting an endless amount of clickies or pulling mobs to zonelines to kill.

I don't raid here because it's full of toxic, greedy neckbeards that lose all moral compass as soon as they see pixels they want.

me not raiding here has nothing to do with not being able to do it, but instead more so of me not wanting to do it.

Devs made changes. Devs will be making more changes. Deal with it.

The idea that using game mechanics so drastically reduce the amount of time you have to sit at your computer is wrong is just stupid. A lot of things change with better technology, including when applied to older games, one of those things is how content is completed using the most efficient means possible. In reality you are upset at the original developers for not foreseeing how these mechanics would be used with 15-20 years of technological advancements. No one is exploiting mechanics with the pulls that are being used, as they could all be done on live in era if you had the ability. I know that we AoEed down fear on live along with seb, while it was harder due to the restrictions involving bandwidth and processors, it was still done.

I don't think you understand just how detrimental to the server forcing rotations and crawling would be unless they fixed the non classic problems that make it impossible to coth into NToV safely. I don't know of anyone who wants to spend 3 hours clearing to their 1 hour FTEd mob just to finally kill the mob get another FTE and do it all over again.

Plain a simple is that the PnP was not universally enforced by sony and rotations were not something that happened on all servers. Trying to claim that both are classic is just ignorant and impossible to prove. Using recollection to try and prove otherwise, especially when admitting that the only reason the guides enforced a rotation was because a majority of the guilds on the server agreed to it just proves it wasn't a universal policy.

I don't know why you think everyone who raids is greedy or a neck beard, I have been in Forsaken/Aftermath since the beginning and have won maybe 10 items in that time, and no it isn't because I don't have the dkp to spend. Just because you prefer to generalize out of ignorance doesn't make it a true statement or observation

No one is complaining about the changes the devs have made. people are just pointing out that while the more casual raiding entities might think its a benefit to them, they are clearly wrong and don't know what this change is actually going to entail for them. Ask CSG how clearing to iki on 3 occasions went. The one "crawl" that actually worked out for them was when they COTHed to near trips to kill sev... that coth alone skipped them 99% of the actual crawl. Removing binds isn't going to change anything as the TL and rez box pulling isn't a thing anymore. All it would alleviate would be having mages bound at coth spots, and the fix for that is just leveling mages or bring back into action the coth teams from before racing, and just never moving them. No one on this server has tried to do a legitimate NToV crawl from eashen to trips/twins so the idea that this change will allow that to happen is just a joke.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think you understand just how detrimental to the server forcing rotations and crawling would be unless they fixed the non classic problems that make it impossible to coth into NToV safely. I don't know of anyone who wants to spend 3 hours clearing to their 1 hour FTEd mob just to finally kill the mob get another FTE and do it all over again.

This just sounds lazy and pixel greedy tbh. You guys are so spoiled by using cheese tactics that any semblance of a challenge for raid mob pixels scares the crap out of you.

Raids should take more coordination and actual tactics than the stuff you guys pull here. The easier it is for you to soak up your dragon loots the better, in your opinion.

The fights should be hard and challenging, and you should have to crawl and kill to get to them pots of awesome pixels.

Circumventing fights and cheesing pulls with clickies is lame. Hopefully they remove bind points and root the mobs so the cheese stops and real raiding can begin.

Maybe then the raid scene would be more appealing and inclusive if more mobs were up and took longer to take down instead of this crap you guys do.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This just sounds lazy and pixel greedy tbh. You guys are so spoiled by using cheese tactics that any semblance of a challenge for raid mob pixels scares the crap out of you.

Raids should take more coordination and actual tactics than the stuff you guys pull here. The easier it is for you to soak up your dragon loots the better, in your opinion.

The fights should be hard and challenging, and you should have to crawl and kill to get to them pots of awesome pixels.

Circumventing fights and cheesing pulls with clickies is lame. Hopefully they remove bind points and root the mobs so the cheese stops and real raiding can begin.

Maybe then the raid scene would be more appealing and inclusive if more mobs were up and took longer to take down instead of this crap you guys do.

Why do you seem to think that clearing trash is some kind of challenge? both A/A cleared to bosses when velious launched, when none of the other raid entities were brave enough to enter. And it was a leap frogging train fest that would end in hour long CRs from both groups. To be honest, the coordination it takes to set up the pulls and train aways is far more than tanking and killing NToV trash, even flurry drakes.

How is anyone circumventing fights other than choosing not to kill all or any of the trash? The dragons are being killed the same way at the entrance as they would be anywhere else, AoEs are avoided and tanks are healed. Rooting the mobs was not classic and it actually made them much easier to fight as you could preslow and debuf every one of them, that wasn't immune. It also made gating irrelevant and made it much easier to avoid AoE since you never had to worry about pushing things around corners. Bind points already don't matter now since you cant train away or TL pull so your argument there just reinforces your lack of knowledge about the raid scene. Nothing about the individual fights is hard and challenging, maybe it was on dial up with shitty computers but that has changed as well. You are either living in denial or are just unable to comprehend the difference between the game 15 years ago and now.

Basically your arguments do nothing but prove you don't know what youre talking about... or you really are just so bad at this game that you think clearing trash for 3 hours is challenging.... If that is the case, you must think PoG is the most challenging zone in the game...