Let's keep talking about how Hasbinbad was banned.

[EkireiTheNecro]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh wow. The lulz. THE LULZ.

Glad to see you remember this.

Your guildmates / associates have believed themselves to be above the server rules SINCE DAY 1.

Why so mad bro?

Oh, right....1/2 your guild just found out that having a GM in the guild does NOT mean you're above the rules.

[EkireiTheNecro]

Originally Posted by Appollo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You make a good point. Although, I'm not sure. Again, as I mentioned before: it depends on the context. To be sure, Perun was an officer and an integral part of their success. However, no corporation, organization, sports team, or guild in an MMO is successful because of one person. More importantly, did the leadership know? That's something we may never know. Although, I still adhere to the belief that unless I'm given more than mere circumstantial evidence shown through mere association I will not believe that the leadership actually knew.

Does it taint their accomplishments? Yes, to a degree. But, it doesn't eviscerate them. Nor does it take away from the fact that they are a highly successful and skilled guild.

Should they be looking to replace their leadership because of no confidence? I don't know, I have never been in their guild nor do I know their leadership other than through conversation, albiet somewhat in depth. What I do know is that they should replace Perun, but that's something that we all knew and that's something that I think we can say will happen without a doubt. Should they replace the rest of the leadership? That's only something the guild can answer as a whole. But, my belief (for what it's worth given my context) is that it depends on how the leadership handles the current situation. My inclination is to say that they should not be removed. And, I base that conclusion on the fact that you cannot control the actions of others coupled with the fact that Xzerion has proved through the accomplishments of his guild that he is a capable leader.

I'm almost guaranteeing that Perun comes back to his original post after his suspension.

And I'm pretty sure Xzerion voted against bans for the cheaters since so many were in his pet guild.

[Appollo]

Originally Posted by EkireiTheNecro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Read your post already pal.

Here's the deal: If you think nobody in TR but the cheaters themselves knew that other were cheating then you're either really stupid, really gullible, or both.

I'm glad we're considered pals. Although, I have a feeling you're using that in a negative light...but, since I'm gullible, I'll just assume we're friends. Great, now that that's established the fact of the matter is that I have no doubt that more than those that cheated knew they were cheating. With that said, my opinion remains the same. Even if there were others, it does not raise itself to a systematic problem.

[Appollo]

Originally Posted by EkireiTheNecro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm almost guaranteeing that Perun comes back to his original post after his suspension.

That remains to be seen, but I hope you're wrong.

Originally Posted by EkireiTheNecro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And I'm pretty sure Xzerion voted against bans for the cheaters since so many were in his pet guild

No way to know that one. Although, even if he voted against it I wouldn't have a problem with that. The real punishment will come when they're removed from the guild, black listed for being cheaters and not capable of attaining what they once had and could have achieved.

[EkireiTheNecro]

Originally Posted by Appollo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That remains to be seen, but I hope you're wrong.



No way to know that one. Although, even if he voted against it I wouldn't have a problem with that. The real punishment will come when they're removed from the guild, black listed for being cheaters and not capable of attaining what they once had and could have achieved.

Right.

Or none of those things could happen....

they get to retain all their uber-loots that they cheated to get...
they remain guided....
simply re-dupe more platinum....
and they ended up losing were a few levels.

[Appollo]

Originally Posted by EkireiTheNecro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right.

Or none of those things could happen....

they get to retain all their uber-loots that they cheated to get...
they remain guided....
simply re-dupe more platinum....
and they ended up losing were a few levels.

Also a possibility. We'll find out soon enough.

[Skope]

you have to remember that they recruited virt even after he outted himself as an SEQer, not sure whether they knew that he was hobby or not, but that doesn't really matter. history suggests that it's certainly a possibility

Originally Posted by Appollo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even if there were others, it does not raise itself to a systematic problem.

not a systematic problem? it absolutely is. in fact, it's a server-wide problem that was handled well by keeping it hush to catch them but absolutely atrociously after they were caught. 300+ not a systematic problem? forget guilds, it's way above that.

[EkireiTheNecro]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you have to remember that they recruited virt even after he outted himself as an SEQer, not sure whether they knew that he was hobby or not, but that doesn't really matter. history suggests that it's certainly a possibility




not a systematic problem? it absolutely is. in fact, it's a server-wide problem that was handled well by keeping it hush to catch them but absolutely atrociously after they were caught. 300+ not a systematic problem? forget guilds, it's way above that.

Live I said probably a dozen times in the last 2 days....

JUST POST ALL THE FUCKING NAMES.

They CHOSE to break the rules knowing full well the consequences. They got off light, however. Just post the names and let the community deal with it now.

[Skope]

no... community deal with it? community had no say, and if you look at the recent poll they probably would have gotten permabanned HAD the community been given the opportunity to deal with it.

Out their names -- all of them -- AND delete the accts. with the way shit was handled currently cheating actually pays off here

[Anger]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I support any action that lessens the probability of cheating, hacking, or use of 3rd party programs to gain advantage over others. Including any and all disciplinary actions taken by staff and the associated guild leadership. This has always been true and will never change.

As to the cheaters in my guild, the jury is still out quite frankly as to the extent of the problem. Your use of words seems to indicate that you think most of TR has been suspended. I have a feeling that as opposed to there being a majority of my guild cheating, a minority of many different guilds will be back after 2 weeks at level 54. There are always bad apples in any group. They do reflect on - but do not represent - the rest of an organization. Case in point, me; I was extremely frustrated and dismayed at the results of this sting, but in the end I am glad it happened.

Was I "conveniently oblivious?" Yes.

Honestly, I don't know why I'm wasting my breath. I know you don't really care how I feel, and are just trying to troll me. Just thought I should comment against my better judgement because I feel pretty strongly on this issue.

I just thought it was funny how you were so valiantly defending your guild's record with that walloftext post a month-ish ago, and now people (not only from TR mind you) are banned for cheating.

Not a stab against you, and not trolling in the least, honestly. Just figured someone would bring up that post eventually, and I was an asshole throughout most of it, so figured it should be me [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]