ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Mandalore93 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The thing about GoT is that I don't really give a shit about the main story lines anymore. For me it's really where a lot of the side characters are going since I think they're generally more interesting/less tropish than the main ones. (Fuck the plot armor on Danny, that bitch has been annoying all five fucking books. Sansa is bearable now due to LF. Cat was also unbearable. Thank god that bitch is dead and her resurrected form doesn't let her speak too much) The only PoV characters I even like are Jon (since AFFC, before that he's just a whiny cunt), Jaimie, and Tyrion. I also like parts of Theon, since I love the psychological exertion he goes through as Reek.

Woman hater. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Mandalore93 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The thing about GoT is that I don't really give a shit about the main story lines anymore. For me it's really where a lot of the side characters are going since I think they're generally more interesting/less tropish than the main ones. (Fuck the plot armor on Danny, that bitch has been annoying all five fucking books. Sansa is bearable now due to LF. Cat was also unbearable. Thank god that bitch is dead and her resurrected form doesn't let her speak too much) The only PoV characters I even like are Jon (since AFFC, before that he's just a whiny cunt), Jaimie, and Tyrion. I also like parts of Theon, since I love the psychological exertion he goes through as Reek.

Dany is what, fourteen, fifteen? "Annoying bitch" is a rather strong rebuke for a teenager who has been treated like dog shit her entire life by her brother, before being sold off to a foreign husband who tragically dies once the two actually begin to love each other. In other words, cut her some slack. I think GRRM does a good job with her exposition and character development - What trope is he employing with her? The teenage girl who spawns dragons, is immune to fire, begrudgingly leads her people, and does this moderately successfully while being fawned over by men who want to bang her / kill her / use her for their own interests? I love reading her parts; if anything, she defies the trope of the damsel in distress. She is a damsel who saves others from distress, and again, she's a teenager. When I was a teenager I was trying to pick up girls during happy hour at Sonic in a POS honda accord listening to Amber by 311.

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Woman hater. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


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^Lol owned
On a serious note, Davos wins the game, just my $.02

Onion King baby

[Tiggles]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yea truth.

bran and sansa are pretty much caught up. i can guess how jojens story is gonna end in the book pretty well. gdi george

Originally Posted by Littlegyno 11.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

poor jojen.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...adwd-spoilers/

[Mandalore93]

Nah, I actually sort of like Brienne's part and I absolutely love Cersei's as the story goes on. What I dislike is incompetence/stupidity (hence why I dislike all the Starks, may they die out soon). Cersei's part is honestly the best written woman in the story I feel. I love her descent into madness as well as all the politicking being done.

That's the thing about Danny though...is that she *hasn't* been doing well in leading her people. Let's be honest, that bitch has plot armor thicker than an elephant's dong and without it she'd be a skeleton on the side of the road. Deus ex machinima pretty much saves her at every turn in the form of the dragons. She's completely inept at ruling the cities she's conquered. She's beyond entitled about her "rights" to the Iron Throne (although that's normal in medieval society, I'll admit. Stannis is just as bad and I lurv him) but more importantly she completely overlooks the facts about her father and why the lords rebelled against him. It's silly to draw comparisons to our lives when the GoT universe, teenage leaders aren't uncommon. Rob is around the same age as Danny, and while he doesn't face the same challenges she does he did well...at first. Then he let his "honor" (aka getting his willy wet) in the way of politics. Bad business that. Tywin is very young also when he fucking curbstomps the Reynes. In real history there are quite a few young, successful rulers such as Mehmet II of the Ottomans (the guy who conquered Constantinople)

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Mandalore93 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah, I actually sort of like Brienne's part and I absolutely love Cersei's as the story goes on. What I dislike is incompetence/stupidity (hence why I dislike all the Starks, may they die out soon). Cersei's part is honestly the best written woman in the story I feel. I love her descent into madness as well as all the politicking being done.

That's the thing about Danny though...is that she *hasn't* been doing well in leading her people. Let's be honest, that bitch has plot armor thicker than an elephant's dong and without it she'd be a skeleton on the side of the road. Deus ex machinima pretty much saves her at every turn in the form of the dragons. She's completely inept at ruling the cities she's conquered. She's beyond entitled about her "rights" to the Iron Throne (although that's normal in medieval society, I'll admit. Stannis is just as bad and I lurv him) but more importantly she completely overlooks the facts about her father and why the lords rebelled against him. It's silly to draw comparisons to our lives when the GoT universe, teenage leaders aren't uncommon. Rob is around the same age as Danny, and while he doesn't face the same challenges she does he did well...at first. Then he let his "honor" (aka getting his willy wet) in the way of politics. Bad business that. Tywin is very young also when he fucking curbstomps the Reynes. In real history there are quite a few young, successful rulers such as Mehmet II of the Ottomans (the guy who conquered Constantinople)

We clearly have different tastes in characters, so that's part of why we disagree. I can't stand Cersei or Stannis, I'm more a Davos type of man. I'm cheering for the moral of the lot rather than the effective.

I will give you this, Dany is most definitely entitled and ignorant about why The Mad King was deposed. That's probably her most annoying part. It is interesting that Barristan doesn't impart some of his vast knowledge to her about this. I still tend to think that while she repeatedly bad decisions, she is surrounded by people who are actually making her more inept. They are decent at military encounters, but Barristan idealizes Dany for what she could be: the first good ruler than he has ever served. Jorah loves her for no other reason than he worships her beauty, or is just pathetic? I'm not sure what happened to him, but again, he sees Dany for what he wants her to be, rather than what she is. I'll admit she isn't the best ruler, but it's hard to be wise when your council doesn't explain more forcefully the consequences of your mistakes. She isn't being given an honest assessment of her abilities, and I still think she is "moderately successful". I'll put it like this, I live in the US. I'd take her as a leader over Obama or Bush in a heart beat.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On a serious note, Davos wins the game, just my $.02

Onion King baby

i would be so god damn thrilled to see Davos some how win the game [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will give you this, Dany is most definitely entitled and ignorant about why The Mad King was deposed. That's probably her most annoying part. It is interesting that Barristan doesn't impart some of his vast knowledge to her about this. I still tend to think that while she repeatedly bad decisions, she is surrounded by people who are actually making her more inept. They are decent at military encounters, but Barristan idealizes Dany for what she could be: the first good ruler than he has ever served. Jorah loves her for no other reason than he worships her beauty, or is just pathetic? I'm not sure what happened to him, but again, he sees Dany for what he wants her to be, rather than what she is. I'll admit she isn't the best ruler, but it's hard to be wise when your council doesn't explain more forcefully the consequences of your mistakes. She isn't being given an honest assessment of her abilities, and I still think she is "moderately successful". I'll put it like this, I live in the US. I'd take her as a leader over Obama or Bush in a heart beat.

oh dany. Dany suffers from Princess complex, same as Lindsay Lohan. shes been told shes special for so long that she believes it. id bet Barristan doesnt want to say anything bad about the mad king to dany, because Targaryens have a history of over reacting to news that they dont want to hear. Barristan has only been with Dany for a year or so, but he has served Targaryens his entire life, and he knows that well. and to be 100% honest, im not entirely sure that Dany isnt a little bit crazy (just like her dad). and the fact that you'd accept President Lindsay Lohan over either of the last two scares the shit out of me.

hopefully dany will learn. but maybe another blackfyre / targaryen war, targs led by Dany, and BFs led by Aegon.

shitty thing is, Stannis should be king at this point, an of the remaining claimants, i think Stannis would also make the best king. and soon, unless something big happens, they might have more support than people realize.

quick run down,

Arryns - Once great fam that would have had support (and did during Roberts rebellion), gonna be ruined by Robyn Arryn. The closest we have is Harrold Hardyng (Harry the Heir), if he looked up with Sansa, and had the right people supporting them, but theres no legit claim on the throne with out war to take it by force.

Baratheons - so Renly's claim is absorbed by Stannis, whom imo has the best claim. however, i fear that as he tangles with the WWs, Dany and her dragons will show up. he will save the realm by holding off the WWs, but he will learn that A) hes not azor azai, and B) he cant beat Dany's dragons as he watches them annihilate the WWs. and so imo, enter Stannis from stage left as the 1000th commander of the nights watch. AND after this last big WW battle, the Nights Watch and the position of Lord Commander will be highly respected and appreciated by the people of Westeros again.

Boltons - these are essentially the new Starks, as they rule the North. however they wont have the support to ever make a claim on the iron throne after the events of the red wedding. furthermore, the North remembers, dont expect the boltons to last too long.

Freys - lol.

Greyjoys - firstly, these nerds win on water, and lose on land. but Balon is gone, Euron is a raping pirate that will never have the support of Westeros, and will probably die when Victarion gets back. Vic could only rule Westeros if Dany put him there, and she wouldnt. Asha again has the issue of not being physically able to conquer westeros but wouldnt be shocked if she ended up in charge of pyke, shes good at getting people behind her (c wat i did there).

Lannisters - The Lannisters are fucked. be it due to the gods, bad luck, or the Dornish master plan. Tywin is dead, Kevin is dead, Tyrion is gone, Jaime can't fight nor can he inherent Casterly Rock as a member of the Kings Guard. Cersei is slowly losing her mind, her family's connections, her looks, and any grasp of power she might have had. Maggy tells us that Cersei will out live her children, so dont expect Tommen or Myrcella to have long happy lives.

Martells - these sneaky sand dwelling nerds have multiple tricks up their sleeves. Arianne Martell is smart, pretty, and dangerous. with Doran guiding her, they could be trouble. and with Oberyn's daughter Sarella disguised as a boy named Alleras studying at the citadel, it has to make us wonder what they are up to. im sure part of their plan is to install dornish law in westeros (as Dorne was never conquered by the Targs, they were allowed to keep their titles, laws, and customs when they were finally brought into the kingdom via a marriage pact). the biggest difference in Dornish law is that females are allowed to rule and be heirs over their male siblings, ie: by Dornish law, Cersei would actually be the legal heir to Casterly Rock over Jaime (regardless of KG status).

Starks - Jon Snow is their only hope at redemption as well as the iron throne. with Rickon being the heir to Winterfell (assuming Bran cant leave the cave). rest of them are dead or useless in terms of being King of Westeros. i dont believe Jon is Eddard's son, which is why hes not heir to winterfell, but could still be the heir to the iron throne, depending on the legitimacy of Aegon.

Targaryens - between Roberts Rebellion, Balons Rebellion, and the war of the 5 kings, id bet theres a lot of westerosi folks that yearn for the peaceful days of Targaryen rule. the problem here is that we now have an Aegon. and if hes a blackfyre, thatll be the start of a third targaryen/blackfyre civil war. if hes a Targaryen, well, he has a better claim to the throne than anyone else as he'd be Rhaegar's first son, and Dany is only Rhaegar's sister. if hes legit, shes nothing more than a pretty princess. Aegon doesnt have a strong enough force to conquer Westeros, but Dany does, which is why Dany needs to strike a deal with Victarion, which would essentially make her unstoppable on land and sea. personally i believe Dany could die in the final battle versus the WWs, kinda in a sacrifice herself to save the rest of us.

Tullys - pras blackfish, but nope.

Tyrells - these nerds will lose all claims to the throne with the death of Tommen. tuff times ahead.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

oh dany. Dany suffers from Princess complex, same as Lindsay Lohan. shes been told shes special for so long that she believes it. id bet Barristan doesnt want to say anything bad about the mad king to dany, because Targaryens have a history of over reacting to news that they dont want to hear. Barristan has only been with Dany for a year or so, but he has served Targaryens his entire life, and he knows that well. and to be 100% honest, im not entirely sure that Dany isnt a little bit crazy (just like her dad). and the fact that you'd accept President Lindsay Lohan over either of the last two scares the shit out of me.

hopefully dany will learn. but maybe another blackfyre / targaryen war, targs led by Dany, and BFs led by Aegon.

shitty thing is, Stannis should be king at this point, an of the remaining claimants, i think Stannis would also make the best king. and soon, unless something big happens, they might have more support than people realize.

quick run down,

Arryns - Once great fam that would have had support (and did during Roberts rebellion), gonna be ruined by Robyn Arryn. The closest we have is Harrold Hardyng (Harry the Heir), if he looked up with Sansa, and had the right people supporting them, but theres no legit claim on the throne with out war to take it by force.

Baratheons - so Renly's claim is absorbed by Stannis, whom imo has the best claim. however, i fear that as he tangles with the WWs, Dany and her dragons will show up. he will save the realm by holding off the WWs, but he will learn that A) hes not azor azai, and B) he cant beat Dany's dragons as he watches them annihilate the WWs. and so imo, enter Stannis from stage left as the 1000th commander of the nights watch. AND after this last big WW battle, the Nights Watch and the position of Lord Commander will be highly respected and appreciated by the people of Westeros again.

Boltons - these are essentially the new Starks, as they rule the North. however they wont have the support to ever make a claim on the iron throne after the events of the red wedding. furthermore, the North remembers, dont expect the boltons to last too long.

Freys - lol.

Greyjoys - firstly, these nerds win on water, and lose on land. but Balon is gone, Euron is a raping pirate that will never have the support of Westeros, and will probably die when Victarion gets back. Vic could only rule Westeros if Dany put him there, and she wouldnt. Asha again has the issue of not being physically able to conquer westeros but wouldnt be shocked if she ended up in charge of pyke, shes good at getting people behind her (c wat i did there).

Lannisters - The Lannisters are fucked. be it due to the gods, bad luck, or the Dornish master plan. Tywin is dead, Kevin is dead, Tyrion is gone, Jaime can't fight nor can he inherent Casterly Rock as a member of the Kings Guard. Cersei is slowly losing her mind, her family's connections, her looks, and any grasp of power she might have had. Maggy tells us that Cersei will out live her children, so dont expect Tommen or Myrcella to have long happy lives.

Martells - these sneaky sand dwelling nerds have multiple tricks up their sleeves. Arianne Martell is smart, pretty, and dangerous. with Doran guiding her, they could be trouble. and with Oberyn's daughter Sarella disguised as a boy named Alleras studying at the citadel, it has to make us wonder what they are up to. im sure part of their plan is to install dornish law in westeros (as Dorne was never conquered by the Targs, they were allowed to keep their titles, laws, and customs when they were finally brought into the kingdom via a marriage pact). the biggest difference in Dornish law is that females are allowed to rule and be heirs over their male siblings, ie: by Dornish law, Cersei would actually be the legal heir to Casterly Rock over Jaime (regardless of KG status).

Starks - Jon Snow is their only hope at redemption as well as the iron throne. with Rickon being the heir to Winterfell (assuming Bran cant leave the cave). rest of them are dead or useless in terms of being King of Westeros. i dont believe Jon is Eddard's son, which is why hes not heir to winterfell, but could still be the heir to the iron throne, depending on the legitimacy of Aegon.

Targaryens - between Roberts Rebellion, Balons Rebellion, and the war of the 5 kings, id bet theres a lot of westerosi folks that yearn for the peaceful days of Targaryen rule. the problem here is that we now have an Aegon. and if hes a blackfyre, thatll be the start of a third targaryen/blackfyre civil war. if hes a Targaryen, well, he has a better claim to the throne than anyone else as he'd be Rhaegar's first son, and Dany is only Rhaegar's sister. if hes legit, shes nothing more than a pretty princess. Aegon doesnt have a strong enough force to conquer Westeros, but Dany does, which is why Dany needs to strike a deal with Victarion, which would essentially make her unstoppable on land and sea. personally i believe Dany could die in the final battle versus the WWs, kinda in a sacrifice herself to save the rest of us.

Tullys - pras blackfish, but nope.

Tyrells - these nerds will lose all claims to the throne with the death of Tommen. tuff times ahead.

Hahahahaha President Lindsay Lohan. Damn that's harsh, she isn't that bad.

I am an idealist. I'm from a shitty part of the world and I prefer benevolence, or at least attempted benevolence, to efficacy that comes with dishonesty. Not to bring politics into this, but GWBush and Obama are dishonest ass holes who are A) ineffective B) scum and C) couldn't run a lemonade stand. Even if Dany was as bad, and she may well be (just not in my opinion), having dragons would be legit for countering Russia. "Hey Putin, you like hunting bears? That's cool, I like killing tyrants whilst soaring atop this dragon."
I may be wrong, but you guys are seriously underestimating what Dany has accomplished.

I agree completely with what you say about Stannis having the best claim, but I disagree with him being the best candidate. He punishes Davos for smuggling in an attempt to save the garrison, and calls it honor. If he were so honorable, he would kill himself for having benefitted from a smuggler's crimes, rather than exact draconian measures on a man simply trying to help. Stannis is too brutal to rule justly. I have no doubt that he could do the job well, but the lower classes would suffer from his intractable sense of "honor."

I honestly think, of the characters with some remaining claim, that Jon Snow would make the best king. That being said, he is unlikely to be easily verified as a Targaryen, or to ever ascend to the throne. In his absense, Dany has the most potential to be a good ruler. And what about Tommen? He certainly doesn't have any glaring negatives to his character; at this point, I prefer him to Stannis.

Favorite characters:
1. Davos
2. Jon Snow
3. The hound
4. The Blackfish
5. Dany
I liked Tyrion until he got to Essos.

Least favorite:
1. Theon
2. Joffrey
3. Cersei
4. Robb
5. Baelish

[LulzSect]

Y u no liek Tyrion post ESSO? I rather enjoyed his travels post KL.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree completely with what you say about Stannis having the best claim, but I disagree with him being the best candidate. He punishes Davos for smuggling in an attempt to save the garrison, and calls it honor. If he were so honorable, he would kill himself for having benefitted from a smuggler's crimes, rather than exact draconian measures on a man simply trying to help. Stannis is too brutal to rule justly. I have no doubt that he could do the job well, but the lower classes would suffer from his intractable sense of "honor."

Stannis didn't cut his fingers for smuggling the onions. He cut off his fingers for ALL of his past smuggling crimes. The onions were simply an act of war in a time of war. He was rewarded for that specific act and never punished.

Stannis is by far the best candidate to rule the kingdom. He is an effective administrator, and that is what's needed most right now. With Kevan dead, there are very few people that could join the small council and actually govern. There are/were people who would be better rulers if they had a competent small council, but whoever takes the throne will pretty much be doing everything themselves at first.

Stannis is the only person who brings the full administrative package. He has experience in economics, administration, laws, and war. No one would be as effective or just as him in the current situation. Certainly, there are situations where people would be more effective rulers because of the support staff they have, but no one has that luxury, and whoever takes the throne will be flying solo for a while.

Stannis/Davos 2015.