Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[diplo]

i feel the pain to the non tmo/fe. end game is boring which is the reason i switched servers because 3am batphones were getting tiring.

i think if tmo/fe could give up the lesser targets like sev/gorenaire, it wouldn't really affect them that much bc those are the least priority in terms of lewt.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by finalgrunt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's what I would like to see too. But I'd rather see this start with scraps than nothing in the end. Let's not forget it would be a favor coming from them, we're not really in position to make the calls around here. And once they see that this doesn't change anything for them as I expect to be (they get to do what they do the rest of the time, i.e pretty much all the time), they might add some other targets to the pool as a proof of good will (and even 2nd league can be entertaining to read about/watch).

This, plus people acting like TMO/FE are in the same position need a reality check. FE is farming these mobs for a reason to catch up ground and get our footing in VP to be on a similar level to TMO. Just when we start to get some of these mobs now it's expected to rotate the ones we really need and have only recently started getting the kills? Makes no sense. If I was TMO i'd agree to that in a heartbeat to slow down our progress.

[arsenalpow]

TMO doesn't even need 99% of the loot in VP considering they offer up rots to anyone not in FE. Again VP isn't filled with invincible targets, 32k isn't enough HP to keep 24 relatively well geared raiders from dropping them as proven when TMO wasn't training us during their vacation.

TMO/FE could fight over PD and rotate the rest and then it's much less of a headache for all parties involved. Also with VP loot flowing I'd suspect FE wouldn't contest the rest of kunark as hard, trickle down economics.

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This, plus people acting like TMO/FE are in the same position need a reality check. FE is farming these mobs for a reason to catch up ground and get our footing in VP to be on a similar level to TMO. Just when we start to get some of these mobs now it's expected to rotate the ones we really need and have only recently started getting the kills? Makes no sense. If I was TMO i'd agree to that in a heartbeat to slow down our progress.

Well, with current request, that would only remove 1 target every X (X being in the 7-10 range). That wouldn't really slow down your progress. But as I said earlier, we're only discussing a subset of targets atm, which clearly are not a priority for your guild. And CT is not included. And obviously VP & Trak neither.

Once things get into motion, I'm pretty sure TMO & FE members will understand what this is all about, and how it (doesn't) affect them. And hopefully, bigger targets will soon be added.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO doesn't even need 99% of the loot in VP considering they offer up rots to anyone not in FE. Again VP isn't filled with invincible targets, 32k isn't enough HP to keep 24 relatively well geared raiders from dropping them as proven when TMO wasn't training us during their vacation.

TMO/FE could fight over PD and rotate the rest and then it's much less of a headache for all parties involved. Also with VP loot flowing I'd suspect FE wouldn't contest the rest of kunark as hard, trickle down economics.

disagree. again FE is still a relatively new guild that still needs the loot from a majority of the kunark targets hence putting in the time/effort to get them. If we didn't need them I doubt you'd see us in farm mode like TMO. IMO again you are asking for way too much, which only hurts FE and helps TMO keep the gap in place.

[AenarieFenninRo]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO doesn't even need 99% of the loot in VP considering they offer up rots to anyone not in FE. Again VP isn't filled with invincible targets, 32k isn't enough HP to keep 24 relatively well geared raiders from dropping them as proven when TMO wasn't training us during their vacation.

TMO/FE could fight over PD and rotate the rest and then it's much less of a headache for all parties involved. Also with VP loot flowing I'd suspect FE wouldn't contest the rest of kunark as hard, trickle down economics.

Its great to shoot for the moon, but you dont often make it... read: interesting suggestion, but not likely to happen

As was brought up by Finalgrunt, start with smaller targets, work your way up. This is a reasonable approach, and has the potential to gain traction from both TMO and FE.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by finalgrunt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, with current request, that would only remove 1 target every X (X being in the 7-10 range). That wouldn't really slow down your progress. But as I said earlier, we're only discussing a subset of targets atm, which clearly are not a priority for your guild. And CT is not included. And obviously VP & Trak neither.

Once things get into motion, I'm pretty sure TMO & FE members will understand what's it's all about, and how it (doesn't) affect them. And hopefully, bigger targets will soon be added.

I've agreed with alot of what you have said already I was mainly pointing it out to chest who was saying the non-priority targets aren't enough. I think the non-priority list will get larger as we are able to get more kills and don't have the need anymore, but like i mentioned we have 2 ct kills, 1 green scale, still need pretty much everything from trak, wizards need vs for epics, druids need vs for epic, inny to some extent for various epic drops, etc so those targets I would consider priorities.

[47shadesofgay]

Loot that matters:

Epic pieces
CoF
BCG
Trak BPs
VS Legs
VP loot
RBB?

I would imagine FE still needs most the things on that list. Rest is just inconsequential or usable by one person.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wasn't trying to slight A-Team or Europa, I was only listing guilds that I've seen compete for high end raid targets.

Well I doubt we could kill stuff like CT 24/7 anyway. Maybe an A-Team/Europa alliance hehehe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If there ever was a rotation, there would have to be some well-defined rules for entry and exit. Actually I've been agreeing with most of what you said in this thread (well except the language). It's hilarious to watch 2/3 of the high-level server population say 'we hate the current raid scene, it's not how we want to play' and then have Sirken and various TMO/FE members say 'well why don't you play that way if you want to get some pixels?'

Originally Posted by shinko

We're not a zerg bros!

OK Shinko you have been pretty nice to me in this thread so I will try to return the favor. I feel like both TMO and FE are zergs relative to the content, but not to the raid scene. In other words, both of you have far more players than you need to kill Trakanon given 2 hours, but not far more than you need to kill Trakanon given 3 minutes. And I think this is ultimately a big reason why TMO doesn't like rotations: with their amount of players, gear, and experience killing the mobs is trivial. It's only when they are under pressure that there is any amount of challenge.

Originally Posted by aenariefenninro

This is why this argument generally never goes anywhere. The people in TMO / FE / IB / BDA / etc have been WILLING to be miserable for days for those 15 minutes of fun.

And this is the other big reason we will not see rotations on this server. Because there are a ton of hypercompetitive goal-oriented type-A players who treat this game as a job and don't think anyone else should be able to enter their little club without the requisite hazing. Look at Mavpal: he's saying 'i left divinity and joined FE and put in all my time batphoning/poopsocking/tracking so I could get my pixels, why should divinity get anything without doing something?' And I can sympathize with this argument, what baffles me is why people were willing to do it in the first place :P

TL;DR: I hope I am wrong, but I think this community is simply too competitive for rotations to stick, and variance throws a huge monkey wrench into the whole business. What needs to happen is simultaneous repops. But it seems that Sirken/Rogean are happy with the current environment, so I doubt anything will change.

That said, if you guys want to work out a rotation you have my vote.

[KotBK]

The biggest proponent is that there hasn't been and doesn't seem to be any change in regards to staff or players despite these types of threads taking place, it's all talk. The only manageable benefit from things like this was ragefire at one point in time. Many people who have dealt with the trash that is currently considered competition or effort fall into having been burnt out, not wanting to waste further time for fear of burning out or ruining the game for themselves, and then you have those who thrive on the broken scene at any cost.

The only way to truly make anything like this discussion work is to make the game mechanics true to classic with no variance and simulated respawns that is all there is to it. With no windows everyone's effort is on an even playing field where discussions can actually hold weight and a week of mobs guarantee's seeing certain mobs multiple times (cause it bars the chance of continued extension in window that may happen now). Even a shorter variance for those who have argued for different time zones works, but NO window guarantees an easier forum to make restrictions on time for guilds A, B, and C etc. to make their attempts while also holding people honest to when a mob actually spawned if a rotation type setting were to take place. However, if classic mechanics came back there would be no need to convey a petition for 1 week of mobs either.

At the end of the day acting like one person or group of people is superior and needs to be viewed as an authority figure for approval is completely ludicrous. All the people here who play the game are the same aka EverQuest fans/players. The respect and treatment of each other is truly what it all boils down to, which sadly with as much hate and disregard that has transpired it continues to prove that is what holds priority over any other possibilities.

Feel free to prove me wrong though i'd actually like to see respect, kindness, and the so called play nice policy actually be utilized. Mentioning sports in correlation to this game or more accurately this server is a slap in the face to sports because atleast in sporting events that is true competition and there is always a level of respect or sportsmanship involved no matter the personal views of the people involved. Sports have a set of rules that are constantly followed and dealt with plus the fact that the results are never lawyered they are simply accepted and learned from.

People think classic promotes poopsocking, what it promotes is true competition with less likelihood of training due to knowing when to clear and limits the plethora of GM disputes that can happen now. With that aspect the FTE standards are now all that's left.

TLDR - These discussions for the most part aren't worthwhile due to no changes ever resulting from any in the past, it's all just talk or wishful thinking (excluding ragefire). The only solution is a classic raid scene as well as improved conduct between players, both of which appear won't be happening as other detrimental precedents seem to be preferred. I would love to be proven wrong though.