Bumamgar

[Chicka]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to point out that the player created rules were quoted by GMs as justification for banning of certain members of Dark Ascension. Either enforce them, or don't - but to use them against DA and let WI slide in this instance doesn't semm right.

Bum, since you were asking about a source for whether or not GMs enforce them, there it is. The 2 golems in 50 minutes was cited a number of times by Cyrius as to why DA engaging Cazic Thule made him a contested mob, thus leading to the ban of two individuals.

Loke, you must know that is not the whole story, or maybe you don't.

First, you killed Draco, it was your mob after you had failed the 50 min timer on Inny, all good, but then you steamrolled into Inny too after IB had downed the golems and now had claim and needed to clear fear. But of course you, AS A RAID, knew you didn't have to clear fear because your guild leader (dressed as one of his alt accounts - winterfresh) and at least one officer rounded up the fear mobs that came to his aid and trained IB with them as we were clearing - the supporting screenshots almost certainly secured those two bans, no player made rules necessary. And you, AS A RAID, knew you did not have rights to both mobs. Frankly I think you got off lightly as a guild, even in retrospect. I don't know how you got 40-50 people or whatever you had to follow that path - they couldn't have all been ignorant of what was going on.

The big difference between that BS, and what happened with WI is that, whether you like it or not, IB chose not to enforce their rights in the situation, and therefore no rule was broken, player made or otherwise.

[Chicka]

Originally Posted by Chicka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the supporting screenshots almost certainly secured those two bans, no player made rules necessary.

Not bans, suspensions. If they were bans this sort of thing would be a lot less common.

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to point out that the player created rules were quoted by GMs as justification for banning of certain members of Dark Ascension. Either enforce them, or don't - but to use them against DA and let WI slide in this instance doesn't semm right.

Bum, since you were asking about a source for whether or not GMs enforce them, there it is. The 2 golems in 50 minutes was cited a number of times by Cyrius as to why DA engaging Cazic Thule made him a contested mob, thus leading to the ban of two individuals.

Just wanted to point out, regardless of GM enforcement of player rules in the past, it is not applicable to this case, since there was no GM involvement. I honestly don't know if the GMs would have enforced the 60 second roll call or not. My gut says no, but I don't really know for sure. However, the facts are, IB chose not to make an issue of it, did not involve the GMs and so it's a non-issue. There's no "either enforce them or don't" or "use them against DA and let WI slide" scenario here, as far as GMs are concerned.

Now if you were referring to IB deciding to not "enforce" the player made 60 second roll call on WI, but pushing the issue in the past with DA, well, that's an issue of player communication and intra-guild politics, and I'm sure has to do with history between the guilds involved. Just like you might give free rezzes/buffs to some people, and ignore others, based on your history with them. Nothing shady there, no one says each guild has to treat every other guild the same way all the time.

[Starklen]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not to mention, since the person who posted those rules has been "banned" I disregarded that whole thread till yesterday when folks explained to me that those were the rules people were following in game.

I've read them, and frankly I think they are an overly complicated mess.

I anxiously await Nilbog's update to the official server rules.

However, until that time, I'll simply allow communication with opposing raid forces and fair play to dictate my actions in game. It's worked so far, and until proven otherwise, I see no reason to overly complicate things.

You talk a pretty big talk for a speck of piss on the server toilet seat. Weren't you banned from SoD for cheating? Should we disregard everything you say because you were banned?

[G13]

Originally Posted by Chicka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loke, you must know that is not the whole story, or maybe you don't.

Either you're being purposely disingenuous or you are completely ignorant as to what actually happened

First, you killed Draco, it was your mob after you had failed the 50 min timer on Inny, all good, but then you steamrolled into Inny too after IB had downed the golems and now had claim and needed to clear fear. But of course you, AS A RAID, knew you didn't have to clear fear because your guild leader (dressed as one of his alt accounts - winterfresh) and at least one officer rounded up the fear mobs that came to his aid and trained IB with them as we were clearing - the supporting screenshots almost certainly secured those two bans, no player made rules necessary. And you, AS A RAID, knew you did not have rights to both mobs. Frankly I think you got off lightly as a guild, even in retrospect. I don't know how you got 40-50 people or whatever you had to follow that path - they couldn't have all been ignorant of what was going on.

IB violated the raid rules by engaging the golems to trigger consistent death touches. This was done by Otto, to slow down DA as they worked towards the golems. This is in direct violation of Nilbog's rules. Not the player made rules. Nilbog's rules since it states clearly you are absolutely supposed to respect the raid and not attempt to engage the mob they are going for. in this instance, the mobs DA was going for were the golems and your guild purposely aggroed them with a rogue to initiate zone wide death touches from CT. This was done to prevent DA from killing the golems within 50 minutes.

By violating the raid rules, you forfeited your rights to any potential claim. Those are the facts.

The big difference between that BS, and what happened with WI is that, whether you like it or not, IB chose not to enforce their rights in the situation, and therefore no rule was broken, player made or otherwise.

In all honesty WI opened up a can of worms. It wasn't up to IB to enforce anything. IB didn't have a leg to stand on since Nilbog has stated he doesn't recognize player made rules. Now as to whether Cyrius or Feiel would have acted differently remains to be seen. I don't even want to begin to speculate, given the questionable past of said GMs.

[guineapig]

The most useful information I have gathered from this thread:

your guild leader (dressed as one of his alt accounts - winterfresh)

If sincerely hope that this is false and Winterfresh isn't actually running DA...

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[Hogwash]

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Can't we all just get along?

[iamjack]

Originally Posted by Chicka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loke, you must know that is not the whole story, or maybe you don't.

First, you killed Draco, it was your mob after you had failed the 50 min timer on Inny, all good, but then you steamrolled into Inny too after IB had downed the golems and now had claim and needed to clear fear. But of course you, AS A RAID, knew you didn't have to clear fear because your guild leader (dressed as one of his alt accounts - winterfresh) and at least one officer rounded up the fear mobs that came to his aid and trained IB with them as we were clearing - the supporting screenshots almost certainly secured those two bans, no player made rules necessary. And you, AS A RAID, knew you did not have rights to both mobs. Frankly I think you got off lightly as a guild, even in retrospect. I don't know how you got 40-50 people or whatever you had to follow that path - they couldn't have all been ignorant of what was going on.

The big difference between that BS, and what happened with WI is that, whether you like it or not, IB chose not to enforce their rights in the situation, and therefore no rule was broken, player made or otherwise.

first of all, it is CT, not Inny.....CT in POF....Inny in POH...

Originally Posted by Chicka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you must know that is not the whole story, or maybe you don't.

well do u know why DA failed the 50 min timer on CT?
just becoz you guys playing dirty trick and keep aggoing Golem and start the DT...and force DA to camp out and burn our timer to zero.
of coz, the one who did it going to say i am innocent, and people publish libel against him..

we are not guide or admin =D we can't send a guy to collect the evidence without being attack/DT/sneak and we only find his geared body second before we pull the moment we pull the second golem...of coz someone is going to say it looks like a naked one to me and it problly be there for days...but it doesn't matter now... there is no point to argue... even if we prove it and we win, it is not going to change anything ... we still had our bans but we learnt how to take a better screenshot so next time when this shit happen, we are going to take better screenshot and pin you guys down.

[Phallax]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The most useful information I have gathered from this thread:



If sincerely hope that this is false and Winterfresh isn't actually running DA...

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Winterfresh is Durison, so yea.

[Supreme]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Either you're being purposely disingenuous or you are completely ignorant as to what actually happened



IB violated the raid rules by engaging the golems to trigger consistent death touches. This was done by Otto, to slow down DA as they worked towards the golems. This is in direct violation of Nilbog's rules. Not the player made rules. Nilbog's rules since it states clearly you are absolutely supposed to respect the raid and not attempt to engage the mob they are going for. in this instance, the mobs DA was going for were the golems and your guild purposely aggroed them with a rogue to initiate zone wide death touches from CT. This was done to prevent DA from killing the golems within 50 minutes.

By violating the raid rules, you forfeited your rights to any potential claim. Those are the facts.



In all honesty WI opened up a can of worms. It wasn't up to IB to enforce anything. IB didn't have a leg to stand on since Nilbog has stated he doesn't recognize player made rules. Now as to whether Cyrius or Feiel would have acted differently remains to be seen. I don't even want to begin to speculate, given the questionable past of said GMs.

Based on this post i official ask for a server title to be bestowed on a new usergroup called "Raid Rules Lawyer" so that we can have a body to uphold the letter and the spirit of the rules!

Plus i need short summaries and not wall of texts.