Spells: Resist issue since patch thread

[Daldaen]

Charming on raids is mentioned in several classic fear and hate guides. Atleast for Druids it is.

With Tashan and Malo it was reliable especially during Kunark once the mobs were all blue by 8-10 levels.

Classic Fear Guide

Druids and Shamans

Druids are essential for the raiding party. They can charm animal mobs that enter the camp without invitation, turning a foe into a nice level 50 pet. Shamans can Togor mobs and drastically reduce the amount of damage dealt by them, as well as Malosi them to allow the casters to work more effectively.

Necromancers

Necros perform a dual role in a break. First of all, the break involves having some key positions occupied by characters that are feigned; Second, necros can charm the undead mobs that enter the camp without warning, again turning a foe into a very nice pet.

Enchanters

Enchaters are the king of the debuffs, and this just may tip the scales in your favor, allowing you to eliminate a few mobs. They can also mezmerize mobs that enter the camp that cannot be charmed by either necros or druids (i.e. Scarelings and Amys). Clarity may also make the difference by allowing that one extra blast, or that one extra heal. Some battles last upwards of 10 minutes, and clarity is very effective in these circumstances.

50s charming fear should have a tough time holding it. Once you out level them a bit it becomes much easier, as is intended and as is classic.

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charming on raids is mentioned in several classic fear and hate guides. Atleast for Druids it is.

With Tashan and Malo it was reliable especially during Kunark once the mobs were all blue by 8-10 levels.

Yes, with tash and malo. But without?

H

[Nirgon]

Oh people 13 years ago playing EQ were ready for charms to break.

Basically every 6 seconds.

[Daldaen]

Without meh. As a 60 Druid I have shiverback last decent durations. Rarely does it last full duration. Rarely does it break in first few ticks. I'd say 2-3 min is normal for a charm. This is with Glamour (-10 MR Druid tash) and level 60.

If you want I can pull logs... Will be tough to remember what I got tashed or malo'd though.

[Daldaen]

[Tue Aug 05 19:51:30 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 19:57:17 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 5min 47sec
[Tue Aug 05 19:57:33 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 19:58:17 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 0min 44sec
[Tue Aug 05 19:58:26 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:07:36 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 9min 10sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:07:53 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:11:42 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 3min 49sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:11:56 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:16:18 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 4min 22sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:16:36 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:17:13 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 5min 47sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:17:28 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:19:43 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 2min 15sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:19:55 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:22:43 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 2min 48sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:22:55 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:29:07 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 6min 12sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:29:27 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:36:08 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 6min 41sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:36:31 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:42:36 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 6min 5sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:43:54 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:50:21 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 6min 27sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:50:43 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:51:03 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 0min 20sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:51:20 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:51:27 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 0min 7sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:51:44 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:52:51 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 1min 7sec
[Tue Aug 05 20:53:15 2014] A revultant rat blinks.
[Tue Aug 05 20:57:39 2014] Your charm spell has worn off. -- 4min 24sec

These are all the values on a mob 11-12 levels lower than myself, not particularly MR and usually debuffed with -10MR, occasionally he had malo from random maloing mobs.

Average charm was about 4min 7s~

If this mob were several levels higher (52-53) that average drops down hugely down to 1-2min, maybe even worse. I'd have to pull up my logs from charming dire wolves in Kael to be sure.

Charm is working pretty close to classic.

[Man0warr]

Yeah charming stuff in Fear/Hate was dicey when the level cap was 50, because level difference makes the most difference in charm breaking. Now that we are 60, those mobs are 10-13 levels lower than the person charming.

[pasi]

Nirgon, the reason charm is more prolific over here than live (like many of unclassic behaviors on this server) is far more due to other factors than difference in game mechanics.

1) Stable Connection, both in terms of lag and disconnects. Self explanatory.

2) Technique for breaks not being common knowledge.

3) Levels. The vast majority of even the hardcore players in their server's #1 raid guilds weren't 60 until Mid-Late Velious. 55+ were fine in any zone. Kunark was mostly designed to get to 60, it was not designed for level 60 play. As such, the content (and prior content such as the Planes) is laughably easy to a group of 60s. The majority of the stuff that 60 enchanters are charming over here is level 45-50. 10-15 levels on a target will allow for a 5 minute or so average charm.


4) Complete knowledge of zones, accompanying npcs, and general lack of fear of CR. In my opinion, this is probably the biggest reason. I have 0 fear of death on Project 1999. Exp doesn't matter and I know there is no zone that I cannot CR myself out of with relative ease. Come Velious, you can drag my corpse to under Lady Nevedaria's belly on a full spawn - it won't matter to me, I'll fish it out.

In addition to the above, I don't believe players realized how powerful charm was until dire charm, but that is more of an opinion of mine.

The best resource that we have on charm during this era is Xornn's guide thats been posted before.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nirgon, the reason charm is more prolific over here than live (like many of unclassic behaviors on this server) is far more due to other factors than difference in game mechanics.

1) Stable Connection, both in terms of lag and disconnects. Self explanatory.

2) Technique for breaks not being common knowledge.

3) Levels. The vast majority of even the hardcore players in their server's #1 raid guilds weren't 60 until Mid-Late Velious. 55+ were fine in any zone. Kunark was mostly designed to get to 60, it was not designed for level 60 play. As such, the content (and prior content such as the Planes) is laughably easy to a group of 60s. The majority of the stuff that 60 enchanters are charming over here is level 45-50. 10-15 levels on a target will allow for a 5 minute or so average charm.


4) Complete knowledge of zones, accompanying npcs, and general lack of fear of CR. In my opinion, this is probably the biggest reason. I have 0 fear of death on Project 1999. Exp doesn't matter and I know there is no zone that I cannot CR myself out of with relative ease. Come Velious, you can drag my corpse to under Lady Nevedaria's belly on a full spawn - it won't matter to me, I'll fish it out.

In addition to the above, I don't believe players realized how powerful charm was until dire charm, but that is more of an opinion of mine.

The best resource that we have on charm during this era is Xornn's guide thats been posted before.

Not buying any of this. What else you got?

I'm just still standing over here... ya know with the lvl 50 druids charming shiverbacks (ya the lower con one, fine) reliably in fear being completely f'd up. Or every enchanter on the server in seb grabbing a dar knight as a pet no problem like that shit's free.

In fact, every tick there should be at LEAST a 5% chance of the charm breaking (let's say just the base chance that should be working). Is that even the case right now? Doesn't seem like it. Same with roots lasting crazy durations.... even on, you guessed it planar trash which should be some of the most resistant mobs in the game outside of having an elemental affinity or being completely immune.

It's just wrong and the people doing it are defending their pixel gains. Period. Same as the previous issues with charming Sirran.

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not buying any of this. What else you got?

I'm just still standing over here... ya know with the lvl 50 druids charming shiverbacks (ya the lower con one, fine) reliably in fear being completely f'd up. Or every enchanter on the server in seb grabbing a dar knight as a pet no problem like that shit's free.

In fact, every tick there should be at LEAST a 5% chance of the charm breaking (let's say just the base chance that should be working). Is that even the case right now? Doesn't seem like it. Same with roots lasting crazy durations.... even on, you guessed it planar trash which should be some of the most resistant mobs in the game outside of having an elemental affinity or being completely immune.

It's just wrong and the people doing it are defending their pixel gains. Period. Same as the previous issues with charming Sirran.

I don't believe that 50 druids are reliably charming silverbacks here.

I have no idea where the 5% figure is coming from.

Anyhow, I do think that you're drastically underplaying how important levels are to the charm equation. The Dar's you mention are 45-50. Ideally, a 60 is looking for a 47-48 pet. Even Krups can be level 49. In general, the stuff that you're charming is 10-15 levels below you. Again, Planes weren't designed for 60 play. The vast majority of Kunark wasn't either. 60s are going to seem really strong in a playground of level 45-50 mobs, and they should.

At this point though, I'm jumping on the post logs bandwagon.

[Erati]

Dald, Glamour is -20 RM