RMT Again

[ociris]

People are gonna flame and people are gonna point fingers, it's what forums are for right? You can label DW as the bad guys all you want but in the end the people are still there. As a new guild with a lot of people leveling its prime feeding ground for all those people buyin up them MQs and fungis to level their chars so it makes sense that there were some bad apples in the lot, but just like when the TMO bann happened, all of them were guilty to right? Just sayin. Most of DW is a new crowd that's enjoyin the feel of the good ol EQ since live is a far cry from what it use to be, and like wyld said a lot of people didn't even know what RMT is, and I would also like to point out that as to where DW was not disbanded the last guild that got caught in somethin like this did, so DW must not have been as bad as that. DW has good people in it, and a lot of them, helpful people, so chances are if you would have asked them for help with a trade they would have done it, was this most of the issues, only 1 person knows the whole story so it's for him to say if he ever decides to as everyone one wants him to for and reason, what's the point of a name and shame when those people are gone anyway. To me the banns seem more like a way to remove the over populated items like the bajillion fungis floating around and all those MQ epics, you wanna put a damper on some of the RMT stuff, kill MQing and push for velious, with people selling MQs for 30-500k you wonder where all that ends up. But what's done is done, hope the innocents get their accounts back, it's not fun bein on the bad side of somethin like this, and for the guilty, they'll just start it over again and be up and runnin in a few days=( it's what they do

[Daldaen]

I'd be curious to hear how many of the 440 accounts banned get overturned.

It's sounding like several people who sold MQs (and on the GMs side they just see MQSeller A accepts 80k from Player B who trades them nothing in return for this transaction). Then they were able to trace that platinum back to an RMTer. And bam, Banhammer. It's an understandable banning, it's just gonna make some people hesitant to MQ epics especially to these level 20 monks and clerics who have no higher main but 100k+ to throw around.

Which IMO is a good thing. I've had to turn down people for PLs when they were interested in buying 60ks worth when their "main" was the level 10 enchanter I was going to PL... Makes people think a bit more about double checking that the people who are paying you huge sums of plat for a service (which shows on Devs side as them giving you plat for nothing in exchange) are really players who have high level mains and are just looking to skip some annoying quest or slow levels on an alt.

PS - Thanks for the repop. We were on a severe drought of real competition. We got to see who lol trained themselves, who didn't mobilize, and who did. Was some good fun.
PSS - Thanks for Respawn day returning to the weekend somewhat. Having most respawns occurring between 6AM-6PM EST on Tuesday/Wednesday makes me sad.

[Kreylyn]

Originally Posted by Nimmanu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except the guild didn't do it. We didn't all gather up and say, "Let's go buy some plat with RL money!!"

Is your entire guild defined exclusively by the bad things your members do? If some of your guildies group up and go deliberately and repeatedly train, and you find out about it two weeks later... did your GUILD do that? Is that what your GUILD is, a bunch of training jerks?

Or is that the bad behavior of a few people who do NOT represent the spirit of your guild? And if an officer found out and removed them without the knowledge of your GM, would they STILL be the end-all representatives of your guild??

Is YOUR guild defined by the mistakes or even outright jerkish things your members do? Or is your guild defined by the people who are most invested in it and who do the most for it? Who gets to decide for you, who defines your guild most thoroughly?



LOL, Yeah, I can't count how many times this evening I had to explain RMT (and I didn't know what it meant, myself... though I understood as soon as it was explained).

But some people just enjoy hating entire groups of people. It has never made sense to me, still doesn't. What are ya gonna do.

You have stated your new and didn't know. I can understand that, as you have pointed out.

The part you may also not know, is that any guild wears the tag of it's members actions as much if not more than the members wear the guild tag reputation. Just a couple of "bad seeds" can make a reputation for all of a guild's members. A single player can build a good reputation even while wearing a questionable guild tag.

Is that fair? No. No one said it was supposed to be. It is how it works though. It is how the community enforces behavioral modification. As an individual, a player can be a dick and the reputation is theirs alone. As a guild member, the community is going to hold that player's guild responsible for the player's dickish behavior. Much more so than the player. At that point either the guild corrects the behavior such as through threat of removing the problem and makes amends, or they deal with consequences of the social back lash. This is why large guilds who have a lot of community interaction develop well known "reputations" good or bad.

Unfortunately the backlash here is massive due to the large number of members (former members) who engaged in inappropriate behavior. Add to that the damage looks to have been done with out any prior knowledge by the leadership of RMT or opportunity for the guild leadership to do proactively change anything before the ban hammer and announcement.

The Guild Leader and officers choose to mass invite with little to no vetting process. It's part of your guild's general operating procedure. It is those actions in this regard that has put your guild in this situation. The bonus to that is you have grown exponentially in a very short time. Down side... well.. we are talking about that now aren't we?

I feel for your members who didn't do anything wrong. I understand that you didn't know how to prevent this previously. I even tend to believe the officers of your guild never intended or have any idea this was going on or going to happen.

But....

The reputation that you say is unfounded and undeserved is ultimately because of your guild officers actions and decisions. Not because they knew or condoned the RMT problem. Your guild chose to mass invite with little to no vetting. This situation is just one of the many possible results of those actions. Your guild is under the microscope now because of those choices having now bitten you in the arse. This is normal. This happens to all guilds on some level. This will happen again.

Don't blame the GMs or the community for calling you out on this. Learn from this. Stand up, accept/acknowledge the failure, and take actions in your guild and it's policies to change things for the better.

That's how your guild will recover... or forever be known as something else.




Krey

[Lojik]

Prominent members of the erudite community reportedly banned, suspected racial profiling. Expect a call from the reverend Al Sharpton Rogean

[Mcleod]

I would think GM's are much more capable at policing RMT than a low level guild leader. If you start telling guild leaders they have to screen possible RMT people, won't that make it harder for legit twinks to find lower leveling guilds? Knee jerk reactions are typically not as helpful as well thought out responses. Guild likes Dark Winter make life a lot more enjoyable for those new players (heh, good place for a joke about RMT there eh?) who are clueless and gearless and need help. I would hate to see that institute take a beating for some folks that take advantage of the system.

My toons will stay with Dark Winter. I didn't join it to RMT, so thanks for weeding those cats out.

Btw, what *IS* a whistle in this context?

[Lyrith]

So "Dark Winter" is clean now... They should be re-made as "Bright Summer"

Seriously though Nim, no need to defend your guild non-stop. Play and enjoy the game... It only makes sense that the most newbie friendly guild would have tons of RMT. I've only heard great things about your guild and the people in it. You cannot help if these new people coming to the server are buying shit from a website to get that "Head Start".

Keep up the good work with Dark Winter and, SHAME AND BLAME the bad ones. Do that and you will be around for a long time!

[Haynar]

NO to shaming. Not going to happen.

Innocents can also be flagged. These can be resolved through petitions. But if they were shamed, no amount of petitions can fix that.

H

[Sirken]

do you guys even realize i had to be sirken on not one, but TWO sundays over this crap? thats the real crime here.

let me try to help any RG nerds that might read this. RMT logs, like herpes, do not just go away. they might quietly stay dormant for a while, but also like your herpes, will never ever go away.

you can play on this server for free, forever. or, you can spend real money and lose all the time and effort you put into your character when we do our RMT waves. and i promise you, that you will be caught [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i understand that some people have more time than money, and theres TONS of games and servers out there for you, that allow RMT transactions, this is just not one of those servers.

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[Lyrith]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

NO to shaming. Not going to happen.

Innocents can also be flagged. These can be resolved through petitions. But if they were shamed, no amount of petitions can fix that.

H

=(

But we like to shame and blame...

Agreed, but no different then the RNF section spreading TMO/IB names already. Obviously it wasn't meant for this thread.

[Lyrith]

Honestly if you just have too much Real Money, and you feel the need to buy items. Donate it to the Server. We will get velious sooner (Hopefully), big guilds will move to new zones. Your guild will start getting more loots, and before you know it... BAM! In 6 to 12 months from your money being spent you will get items!

Your heard it here first!