Einstein or Newton

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Daywolf, stop bearing false witness. Relax and let the Sephiroth consume you for you are powerless against them.

I don't know anything about FF, never played. I know a bit about interdimensional beings though. Did you know that some theorize that there could be a whole other dimensional world virtually inches from ours? Not multi-verse, but actual dinensional plane running paralel right next to ours. Sort of like subspace, in a sense. There may even be paralels where the mechanics of our dimension is contained, such as for that which governs the force of gravity. Maybe we can figure out how to rip open a portal to it and send in a nuke.

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Originally Posted by Toehammer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say Faraday > Maxwell. My original ranking (opinion) was Newton, Maxwell, Faraday, then Einstein. Maxwell was a beast, and I do believe right next to Newton. Maxwell was much more of a mathematical powerhouse than Faraday, as you mention. However even his original mathematical formulation of electrodynamics, just like Faraday's lines of force, were a bit ahead of their time, and that is why it was difficult to present them to the common scientist (even physicist). Faraday had brilliant ideas that people were sorting out after he died. Maxwell's very confusing original equations were clarified by work of Hertz, Heaviside, Lorentz, and Einstein to an extent (by using them as a basis/assumption for relativity). The way we learn the 4 vector equations today (or 1 if you know differential geometry) today don't really resemble Maxwell's originals. So just like you argue that Maxwell illuminated Faraday's confusing skull-trapped ideas, following generations sorted out Maxwell's mess as well.

It is always difficult to deconstruct the work of true geniuses, and usually requires another genius. Faraday -> Maxwell -> Hertz/Heaviside/Lorentz/Einstein. Also, the perception that prophetic scientists sometimes seem to have irrational thought processes, does not make it a fact. To call him a savant and saying he was totally lost in his own mind is a matter of opinion. According to many accounts, he was an excellent and simple orator, and demonstrated his ideas and experiments with profound clarity. I wasn't alive, so I don't know... but Maxwell even gave most of the credit to Faraday for electromagnetic theory, just as Newton acknowledged Kepler/Galileo/Descartes for his success, and despite Faraday's poorly developed mathematics, Maxwell claimed Faraday was truly a remarkable mathematician that would influence the future. Anyone who has grown up with this concept of fields, which Faraday seemed to conjure out of thin air, knows Faraday's impact on mathematics/physics. Maxwell's formulation of electrodynamics is the most important moment in the history of mankind since Newton, but it all depended on Faraday's concept of fields.

Cool response. It's nice to see someone contribute their own thoughts and feelings into this thread with some knowledge. Now let's move forward to your quantum mechanics feelings

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What? Naaah, you're reading shit into it. Why the hell would I be angry? I just gave it to you straight, and in about same measure as you have been posting. You make a lot of assumptions and generalizations, welcome to elf sim forums. You mad, bro?

er scientists? I'm quite fond of astronomy and cosmology, so it matters to me. You wanted to know why we are so small, well same reason many of the astronomers and cosmologists say, because we are. We really don't know much, but some think we know better. Know better so we unleash genetically modified organisms into our ecosystem. The Earth is headed for a severe famine due to it, as crops fail, as they are failing. For science!

We've never detected life outside of Earth? Would you say the Earth is under a mass shared hallucination then? Or is half the planet just liars in your opinion? That's some deep denial, dude. Never seen one? Or never had friends that have seen them? I mean there are even ancient pictographs of them. This is of historical record. I can't just ignore my fellow human beings and belittle their experiences with such closed-minded nonsense. I feel quite liberated in fact.

When it comes to earth being under a mass shared hallucination. I'd say yes definitely. For instance, going back to Toehammer's thoughts on atoms at quantum level etc. In Quantum Mechanics , the idea of matter being an illusion would base most people under a hallucination of what reality actually is.

The problem? Quantum mechanics is considered by many scientists as pseudoscience. It literally changes the entire scope of Newton physics. It more so stems from a holistic entanglement of immaterial energy waves , which stem from the work of Einstein, Planck, and Werner Heisenberg, among others.

Despite the findings of quantum physics many scientists, today still cling onto the prevailing matter-oriented worldview, for no good reason at all. As mentioned earlier, these scientists restrict quantum theory’s validity to the subatomic world. If we know that matter isn’t physical, how can we further our scientific discovery by treating it as physical?

One of these potential revelations is that “the observer creates the reality.”
We can no longer ignore the fact that our beliefs, perceptions and attitudes (consciousness) create the world.

Get over it, and accept the inarguable conclusion. The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual

If you don't believe that , then perhaps you should look at the example called the double slit experiment.Also, many of the experiments that use the role of human consciousness and how it affects our physical material world have been done so under the Department of Defense and military agencies, thus remaining classified -hidden science kept from the eyes of the mainstream public world

For instance.... the 24-year government-sponsored program to investigate ESP and its potential use within the Intelligence Community. This operation was called STAR GATE , and most of its research and findings remain classified to this day. Another example is the research conducted by the CIA and NSA in conjunction with Stanford University.
Link : http://www.lfr.org/lfr/csl/media/air_mayresponse.html
link : http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/pdfs/...g-stanford.pdf

Point being made : We are atoms, made up of subatomic particles, that are actually a bunch of energy vibrating at a certain frequency. Us, these vibrational beings of energy exhibit consciousness, which has been shown to manifest, create and correlate to our physical material world.

With that being said : Different states of emotion, perception, and feelings result in different electromagnetic frequencies

And yes this has been proven : see link below.

Link : https://www.heartmath.org/research/r...etween-people/

So in regards to the sci-fi shit. It plays a major role in science today. Now to contradict everything I just said : I want to make it known if we start separating the Scifi shit from Quantum science. I think you will find sci-fi goes hand in hand with science.

The real quantum mechanics in science is about the physical detector measuring the behaviour of subatomic particles (electrons and light (photons) by bouncing particles off of it from the side. It has nothing to do with intention orchestrating space-time events (consciousness over matter), observation/watching or consciousness.

Electrons and light (photons) can act LIKE either a wave (interference pattern) or a particle (sum pattern) depending on how you set up the experiment, the detection technique. It has to do with the detector that is part of the experimental apparatus and how it interfere with particles by detecting them.

Now going back to the double slit experiment I referred to above : Look at the position of the detector (measuring device) next to the slit in the experiment. It’s not directly on the path of the particles. If the detectors are turned off, the particles act LIKE a wave. The real quantum mechanics is all about the physical interference.

The detector interacts with the particle from the side as it travels along. When the detectors bounce photons off the electrons as it travels along, it changes their energy, momentum and position and collapse their superposition states. As an analogy, imagine trying to find the position of a marble A in a dark room, by hitting it with marble B from the side as it travels along.

The method was refined in 2012, researchers using more advanced technology and tools finally succeeded in correctly identifying which slit the particles went through without its superposition collapses.

Consciousness/Intention over matter is real but it has nothing to do with quantum mechanics as it is in science.

Electrons and light (photons) can act LIKE either a wave (interference pattern) or a particle (sum pattern) doesn’t say anything about Matter and Brahman/ Universal consciousness are but the two poles of the same thing, like cold and hot.

[Ahldagor]

The cat is?

[maskedmelon]

Hmmm. Would like to hear more about doubles slit follow-ups. I'm not entirely sold on the explanation of observer interference since, as I understood it, all potential particle paths are mathematically valid: right slit, left slit, both slit, no slit. Seems to me that reality is coded to generate certain information only when queried. That is a truly fantastic proposition ^^ Of course I opine comfortably from a place of profound ignorance ^^ Please expound oh ye men of knowing ^^

[Nihilist_santa]

Originally Posted by Chaboo_Cleric [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When it comes to earth being under a mass shared hallucination. I'd say yes definitely. For instance, going back to Toehammer's thoughts on atoms at quantum......ETC ETC

Have you ever looked into Bohm and Pribram's Holographic theory? Have any idea of its relation to simulation theory? Just curious. I find their holonomic view of the brain fascinating although a bunch of mystical bullshit has sprung up around these ideas(like people falling for Sai Baba's BS). I have seen different religious takes on the holographic theory and not just from your typical Buddhist/Hindu/Gnostic views but have read some really interesting breakdowns on this idea of the word and image in Christianity that are too in depth for here.

[mgellan]

Originally Posted by Chaboo_Cleric [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are plenty of scientific theories with a vestigial amount of evidence. There are even some with none. Therefore, I guess that is faith yes?

There are plenty of hypothesis without evidence, in Science theories are confirmed with multiple lines of evidence such that at least provisional acceptance is warranted. You're using a colloquial definition of "theory" that is equated to "guess" which more correctly maps to "hypothesis" in Science.

So I accept Theories that are backed by substantial, converging lines of evidence which is completely different from "faith" which is by definition accepting something without evidence or despite evidence to the contrary.

Regards,
Mg

[mgellan]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Faith is just something that can't be seen, or isn't seen, but may be seen. It's like trust. But anyway, show me a quantum particle. Show me the big bang. Show me macro-evolution. Fact is, modern "science" takes lots of faith.

It's not like trust. I trust the sun will rise every day because all previous tests of that hypothesis has resulted in positive results. Faith would mean that I trust something will happen despite never having seen any evidence it has happened before. Big difference.

Regards,
Mg

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Originally Posted by mgellan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are plenty of hypothesis without evidence, in Science theories are confirmed with multiple lines of evidence such that at least provisional acceptance is warranted. You're using a colloquial definition of "theory" that is equated to "guess" which more correctly maps to "hypothesis" in Science.

So I accept Theories that are backed by substantial, converging lines of evidence which is completely different from "faith" which is by definition accepting something without evidence or despite evidence to the contrary.

Regards,
Mg

This was already established with my retort back to bdastomper, so yes and no

Originally Posted by bdastomper58 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

please learn what a scientific theory is

Originally Posted by Chaboo_Cleric [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know what that is, thanks. What I wrote was based on a different definition and meaning. Not a literal. For instance, Einstein's theory of relativity, as oppose to the Big Bang theory. You'll find those two examples fit both definitions in what I said despite, one being an actual "scientific theory", and the other not.

Please learn what a "Rhetorical aim", and "angel of vision" is.

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Originally Posted by Nihilist_santa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have you ever looked into Bohm and Pribram's Holographic theory? Have any idea of its relation to simulation theory? Just curious. I find their holonomic view of the brain fascinating although a bunch of mystical bullshit has sprung up around these ideas(like people falling for Sai Baba's BS). I have seen different religious takes on the holographic theory and not just from your typical Buddhist/Hindu/Gnostic views but have read some really interesting breakdowns on this idea of the word and image in Christianity that are too in depth for here.

Yes , let me get back to you on this. I am at work now.