New sneak mechanics = trainfest?

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you seem to think that clearing trash is some kind of challenge? both A/A cleared to bosses when velious launched, when none of the other raid entities were brave enough to enter. And it was a leap frogging train fest that would end in hour long CRs from both groups. To be honest, the coordination it takes to set up the pulls and train aways is far more than tanking and killing NToV trash, even flurry drakes.

How is anyone circumventing fights other than choosing not to kill all or any of the trash? The dragons are being killed the same way at the entrance as they would be anywhere else, AoEs are avoided and tanks are healed. Rooting the mobs was not classic and it actually made them much easier to fight as you could preslow and debuf every one of them, that wasn't immune. It also made gating irrelevant and made it much easier to avoid AoE since you never had to worry about pushing things around corners. Bind points already don't matter now since you cant train away or TL pull so your argument there just reinforces your lack of knowledge about the raid scene. Nothing about the individual fights is hard and challenging, maybe it was on dial up with shitty computers but that has changed as well. You are either living in denial or are just unable to comprehend the difference between the game 15 years ago and now.

Basically your arguments do nothing but prove you don't know what youre talking about... or you really are just so bad at this game that you think clearing trash for 3 hours is challenging.... If that is the case, you must think PoG is the most challenging zone in the game...

Your only argument is that you shouldn't have to kill anything to get to the dragons, you should just waltz in, cheese the pulls and get pixels, because it shouldn't require any crawling or actual dungeon fighting. Do you hear yourself?

It's pretty clear your not objective about it, but that's no surprise seeing you are going to defend the present system of pixel collecting that you call "competitive raid racing," as it grants you the fastest possible way for you to get said pixels.

They should just remove every mob from the zone then, seeing nothing matters except for the loot on the dragons.

Essentially that's all you have figured out how to do, you figured out a way to eliminate the challenge of the zone by cheese pulling mobs to zonelines. Bravo.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your only argument is that you shouldn't have to kill anything to get to the dragons, you should just waltz in, cheese the pulls and get pixels, because it shouldn't require any crawling or actual dungeon fighting. Do you hear yourself?

It's pretty clear your not objective about it, but that's no surprise seeing you are going to defend the present system of pixel collecting that you call "competitive raid racing," as it grants you the fastest possible way for you to get said pixels.

They should just remove every mob from the zone then, seeing nothing matters except for the loot on the dragons.

Essentially that's all you have figured out how to do, you figured out a way to eliminate the challenge of the zone by cheese pulling mobs to zonelines. Bravo.

That isn't an argument I am using at all actually. I am straight telling you that clearing NToV trash is not a challenge and has nothing to do with individual dragon encounters.

"Fastest way possible" if I was looking for a fast way to get pixels it wouldn't be 10 items in 2 years but sure. I think racing is stupid, however it did actually allow the less hardcore guilds a viable shot at ToV dragons. Again you continue to prove your ignorance on the subject, not to mention your lack of comprehension. Stick to what is actually said and not what you assume based on your generalizations and assumptions, clearly they are not educated enough.

Is it the challenge of the zone or the challenge of individual encounters you're looking for? they are not and never have been the same thing. Flurry drakes were always stupid, red wurms were always harder than white wurms, unslowable dragons are always harder than slowable ones. Nothing you are complaining about is relevant in any way, trash was trained away and cothed past on live just the same as it will be here even if they root everything in NToV. In fact it will be much easier to train trash away and never have to kill it when or if they decide to root dragons.

You know when you're in a group and the puller splits a named out for you? you just skipped content in order to get to the named mob, its the same thing.

I think the most important part here is that no one is forcing you to enter the raid scene and your singular opinion in now way will alter that. You couldn't cut it before and you will never cut it on P99 as far as raiding goes. You should just stick to leveling alts and giving up pre 60 because you clearly cant hack it.

[Vianna]

Yeah.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Stick to what is actually said and not what you assume based on your generalizations and assumptions...

Raid scene sucks. Change is good. Nutshell.

[Pezy]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Devs made changes. Devs will be making more changes. Deal with it.

You seem to be the only person here having a problem dealing with whatever it is that crawled up your butt.

[Jonabis]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That isn't an argument I am using at all actually. I am straight telling you that clearing NToV trash is not a challenge and has nothing to do with individual dragon encounters.

"Fastest way possible" if I was looking for a fast way to get pixels it wouldn't be 10 items in 2 years but sure. I think racing is stupid, however it did actually allow the less hardcore guilds a viable shot at ToV dragons. Again you continue to prove your ignorance on the subject, not to mention your lack of comprehension. Stick to what is actually said and not what you assume based on your generalizations and assumptions, clearly they are not educated enough.

Is it the challenge of the zone or the challenge of individual encounters you're looking for? they are not and never have been the same thing. Flurry drakes were always stupid, red wurms were always harder than white wurms, unslowable dragons are always harder than slowable ones. Nothing you are complaining about is relevant in any way, trash was trained away and cothed past on live just the same as it will be here even if they root everything in NToV. In fact it will be much easier to train trash away and never have to kill it when or if they decide to root dragons.

You know when you're in a group and the puller splits a named out for you? you just skipped content in order to get to the named mob, its the same thing.

I think the most important part here is that no one is forcing you to enter the raid scene and your singular opinion in now way will alter that. You couldn't cut it before and you will never cut it on P99 as far as raiding goes. You should just stick to leveling alts and giving up pre 60 because you clearly cant hack it.

Very few dragons or raid bosses at this point are a challenge to any guild or coalition setting foot into velious raid zones these days. It's quite obvious the devs want players here motivated by the desire to work together as a whole unit twords victory.

My opinion is my own, but neither you, nor I make the decisions on this. I would say if it desparages you so, there are several other gaming communities you may enjoy. No one is forcing anyone to play here, I hope.

[Dreenk317]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That isn't an argument I am using at all actually. I am straight telling you that clearing NToV trash is not a challenge and has nothing to do with individual dragon encounters.

"Fastest way possible" if I was looking for a fast way to get pixels it wouldn't be 10 items in 2 years but sure. I think racing is stupid, however it did actually allow the less hardcore guilds a viable shot at ToV dragons. Again you continue to prove your ignorance on the subject, not to mention your lack of comprehension. Stick to what is actually said and not what you assume based on your generalizations and assumptions, clearly they are not educated enough.

Is it the challenge of the zone or the challenge of individual encounters you're looking for? they are not and never have been the same thing. Flurry drakes were always stupid, red wurms were always harder than white wurms, unslowable dragons are always harder than slowable ones. Nothing you are complaining about is relevant in any way, trash was trained away and cothed past on live just the same as it will be here even if they root everything in NToV. In fact it will be much easier to train trash away and never have to kill it when or if they decide to root dragons.

You know when you're in a group and the puller splits a named out for you? you just skipped content in order to get to the named mob, its the same thing.

I think the most important part here is that no one is forcing you to enter the raid scene and your singular opinion in now way will alter that. You couldn't cut it before and you will never cut it on P99 as far as raiding goes. You should just stick to leveling alts and giving up pre 60 because you clearly cant hack it.

If you think keeping a raid force large enough to crawl through NToV together, motivated, and following directions for as long as would be necessary to crawl to the nameds isn't a challenge, then you don't know what you are talking about.

This is gonna show us just who the "good" guilds are. And separate out the rest.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you think keeping a raid force large enough to crawl through NToV together, motivated, and following directions for as long as would be necessary to crawl to the nameds isn't a challenge, then you don't know what you are talking about.

This is gonna show us just who the "good" guilds are. And separate out the rest.

Takes roughly 5 hours to crawl and kill most of NtoV. We killed Kreizen, Cekenar, Zlexak, Sevalak, Jorrleag, and Lady N today on Takproject in about 3 and a half hours crawling from Aary's Pit with 44 characters and only 2 Monks splitting it. On P99 with 2 guilds the size of A/A and 20 Monks splitting they could do the same in half the time if they coordinated with each other properly.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Jonabis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Very few dragons or raid bosses at this point are a challenge to any guild or coalition setting foot into velious raid zones these days. It's quite obvious the devs want players here motivated by the desire to work together as a whole unit twords victory.

My opinion is my own, but neither you, nor I make the decisions on this. I would say if it desparages you so, there are several other gaming communities you may enjoy. No one is forcing anyone to play here, I hope.

I realize quite well that I am not the person who makes the changes to this server, I never said I was. I also have never said that I think the changes that were made are bad or wrong, personally I am more than fine with them as the racing scene was stagnating, this will at least change it up and possibly peak some interest again from people who were taking a break.

I am honestly not sure how you could come to the conclusion that these changes disparaged me in any way. The guild I am in adapted quickly and still cleared a big portion of ToV. You seem to think that this has already altered the raid scene, but in reality it hasn't.

[Sancta]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Devs made changes. Devs will be making more changes. Deal with it.

I think you're misunderstanding, many don't have an issue with the changes at all. Seems you do though.

Casual raiding guilds will have a tougher time competing than they already do with these changes. I wouldn't mind seeing multiple guilds competing on the same level rather than the same two, spices things up and makes it more interesting. And this is coming from someone who is in the top 2.