Discussion: Play Nice (Training, Bind Camping)

[Envious]

Keegan was a forum nazi whore. Anytime he got proven wrong, or looked dumb, or someone called him or the server out, he just slammed a forum ban on them then pulled some arrogant bullshit about how great he was for hosting forums that half a dozen people from the server would have been willing to do.

[Pudge]

hey man i thought you were supposed to be boning somebody! and not voidd.

i dont know about him handing out items though. never heard of it. who did he give items to?

other than.. some random monk who appeared in 2.0 fully geared to the teeth. i think his name was.... KRINGE? that was all blackmail yo, he had to do it. for the best interest of the server. lest we all wanted to be hacked and DDOSed. voidd = wise paladin of pvp

[Xantille]

Originally Posted by Envious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did not kill live~
What killed the VZ/TZ Emu server was admin, not the 1 week period of no rules~

Because we're going to have a live-like population on Red99? Jesus fuck, you are retarded.

I'm not sure what high level PvE you did on TZ, but Buhbuh's point about Keldorn was spot on. Training is all Keldorn did, and he eventually got banned (despite, as you claim, no GM intervention).

[Xantille]

Let me write this in a way you can understand, Envious.

~~~~~~Points in favor of allowing training:~~~~~~

1) Training was permitted on live~

2) Training will cause GM's innumerable headaches, cause people to quit, GM favoritism, etc~


#1 is patently false. If enough people cried, people still got banned on live (see: Keldorn, Erondiel's shitty ass monk who trained PDM in Kael, etc)~

#2 is the stronger argument, but I think Searyx addressed it fairly well. GM's shouldn't police training unless they are present at the fight, OR they see a crystal clear case via FRAPS (example = guild is at north wall in Fear, monk zones in and brings a shit ton of mobs with no intention of fighting)~

Those are the only two situations where I would want a rule against training enforced. Generally, every guild has someone running fraps~

And please, because you claim to come from a PvP server: do you really think allowing training is going to help the population more than policing training is going to hurt it?

Oh, I almost forgot: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Pudge]

Originally Posted by Xantille [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

all you needed to say.

[lethdar]

Originally Posted by Envious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did not kill live~

Well of course not on TZ, you guys had a) Less and less skilled trainers than sullon, b) GMs who did ban the trainers, despite your repeated claims against that, and c) Raids with 70+ that could spare a good deal of people to defend against when the trainers weren't banned.

Do you think raids on r99 will have 70+ people and be capable of leaving a good majority at a zoneline or midpoints of a zone for counter train ops? Do you think most non vztz players are going to stick around once they eat the first few xp deaths from a level 1 cleric training them repeatedly in crushbone, unrest, sol b, etc? Earlier in this thread you said you wanted a cesspool to play in, I'm sorry that you missed out on being able to play on sz and experience it first hand, but non stop training is not good for a population, which is one of the reason sz was the first pvp server to drop to no pop.

Originally Posted by Envious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Searyx is my pal he 100% agrees with me

You sure seem to be reading a lot into his post. Yes there can be some ambiguity, however it is pretty obvious what is going on when a bard and cleric zone into plane of fear against a raid of 20. Do you think a GM watching this wouldn't be sure of what happened when they run with selos and DA train the temple? Or the lowby cleric griefers who make a habit out of doing this in crushbone and sol b.

In addition, p99 seems to have much better logs than vztz ever did. That blurry brown rexx train would be a lot more convincing when backed up with logs showing he was the first to agro every mob between fungi king and trakanon.

Guess what pal, no one is talking about a 100% catch rate. However even knowing that this is something you can lose your character over is enough to deter most training. Should someone make a reputation for themselves its an easy flag for people to know to start running fraps and for GMs to follow. VZTZ had very few trains when sirken was on the case, for some reason you seem to believe red99 with its much greater population wont have more than 1 GM to check on the entire server.

Originally Posted by Envious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lethdar so mean he insults me instead of responding to my points

You mean where I responded to you trying to call me a hacker etc? Thin skin bro, not sure if you're meant for a pvp server.

[dusk883]

For the record, on TZ there wasn't any real CC'ing enforcement on the server by any GMs until Frogs were online. Like I said in another thread, I'm not a CCer by nature but it sure adds to the pre-fight drama and calculations when you believe someone might want to CC you, added more fun and desire to win. Something WoW never gave it's players and what made EQ so fun - you were going to pay a dear price for failure if the right arsehole wanted to punish you for losing pvp. By no means was I any "GOOD" at pvp, but adding more risk/reward is good for all IMO. Its what makes EQ pvp so much more fun than any other game besides the original UO where you would get tagged as a "murderer" for too many murders.

[Envious]

Got sucked into a few extra posts last night Pudge, shit happens.

And yes, I'm going to bring the tilde back. Naming one person that got banned on a server because 200 PDM people were /petitioning it doesnt really prove the point. Training happened on TZ on a daily basis.

Xant, I think what your failing to see is that the community can enforce it better than the GMs and with out needing any transparency. I am not exactly sure how deep you got into P99, but with how you guys are talking about it and speaking as tho it is some oasis of gaming. Its not, it has the same problems you see on most servers.

People hate Uthgaard, cause he moves with authority. There are several guilds / tons of people that think the server is already not legit because there are guilds with guides etc. One of the better GMs and definitely the most friendly got griefed off the server in the short 2 or 3 months I was there adjusting to the P99 setup. There are cries about trains, FTE, camping rules, spawn rights, spawn definitions, pull rights.

The easiest way to eliminate all that hassle, is to do 2 things: Make the server PvP, and remove the GMs from ANY PnP enforcement.

You can always say "Oh, well so and so got banned for X on Live, so it was enforced" but we both know its complete bullshit.

And you make it worse by saying "oh if they have fraps or happen to be there"... as soon as you have 2 people from 1 guild banned in a row, we know whats coming. Rage quits, QQ posts, accusations of corruption.

Even with logs, and fraps, how do you derive the intent? If one guild has 50 players, and is trying to engage another guild with 30, bringing some mobs is not something they will worry about. Is that a train?

Bringing in human error and decisions into a game that is made so well for PvP is pointless. If someone is a shitbag, or a guild is a shitbag, then people should treat them as such and return the favor 100 fold. Thats what we used to do on TZ, maybe before your play time, but that is how it was done. The players handled it.

Not to mention, 300 players at peak during classic, will be so crowded it will be insane.

[Envious]

And for Lethdar.

I wasnt reading shit into Searyx's post. He agreed with my main point, which all my others stem from: you can not derive intent from a fraps or even watching, or even being in vent for the most part.

And yes, I do see a guild on R99 having 50-70 online. TR, the smaller of the top 2 guilds on P99 has fucking 50 online at times, and TMO can double that.

To boot, if a cleric / bard zone into fear alone, with /who all fixed, they might not know who is in there and are planning on having bard kite fear while cleric camps at safe wall. It might wipe a group pulling in another spot?

Ban them?

Neg. Its a pvp server, take your fucking lumps like a man and move on.

[Amuk]

Gotta side with Xant on this, I played on TZ - I wasn't a part of PDM, I was a semi casual fucken 16-17 year old player, we fought SOTG/Kotwr/fireborn(who we later merged with) type level of guilds and there was rarely training involved.

I remember our guild leader would make sure noone played dirty and it usually was given back to us. I don't think this community is like live, and at least if it's against the rules and the GMS catch you in the act no fucken way to mistake a blatent train (for example naked Nwall train) then ban that accnt and you lose whatever fucken massive time levelling on p99 exp curve. I honestly think the fear of losing your char alone is a pretty big deterrent on that type of style server with active GM's.