religion

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

I'll give you two points for being the first one to put your feet in the water though. You totally failed on the delivery.
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[G13]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll give you two points for being the first one to put your feet in the water though. You totally failed on the delivery.
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Nonsensical gibberish

You're aware that you're a laughable lying fucking fraud right? Only a sick twisted POS would lie about their supposed connection to Sandy Hook "victims". It's not surprising that you're an atheist. You lie with impunity because you have no moral code.

Like anything you say one ANY topic has any credibility. Go ahead. Show me proof of all the gradual changes that led to a fish becoming a bird. It certainly doesn't exist in the fossil record. Show me all the gradual changes that shows new legible genetic code written chaotically and randomly that is orderly and functional.

Go ahead. Try it. Show us all how smart you are.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nonsensical gibberish

You're aware that you're a laughable lying fucking fraud right? Only a sick twisted POS would lie about their supposed connection to Sandy Hook "victims". It's not surprising that you're an atheist. You lie with impunity because you have no moral code.

Wrong thread.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like anything you say one ANY topic has any credibility. Go ahead. Show me proof of all the gradual changes that led to a fish becoming a bird. It certainly doesn't exist in the fossil record. Show me all the gradual changes that shows new legible genetic code written chaotically and randomly that is orderly and functional.

Go ahead. Try it. Show us all how smart you are.

Fish becoming a bird, Squirrel becoming a horse. You still don't get it. I'd be sorry but I'm not.

[G13]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wrong thread.

Dodge noted

Why did you lie about your connection to Sandy Hook victims?

Why are you are a lying POS? Knowing that you're a proven liar, wtf should anyone ever give a flying fuck about anything you post on these forums ever again?

Fish becoming a bird, Squirrel becoming a horse. You still don't get it. I'd be sorry but I'm not.

Don't get what? You can't just come back with "You just don't get it". You sound like a religious zealot. Give me concrete examples. You don't have an answer to any of those questions. Since you don't have any answer to any of those questions how about these?

Where did Matter come from?

Where did the Laws of the Universe come from? Gravity ect.

Where did the energy that would have been needed to create The Big Bang come from?

How do you explain The Cosmological Constant? Purely random chance? Hahaha ...

Hpw did the first living cell come into existence? You understand how complex a cell is right? How about a plant cell? How did a plant cell come into existence? They are extremely complex. How did gradual changes over time and random chance create a plant cell?

How does Time cause Evolution? You guys keep preaching this false gospel of "gradual changes over time" but you never provide the force/energy/mechanism for these changes. Natural Selection just means the unfit do not survive. It doesn't cause an Evolutionary process where a new and never before kind comes into existence from another. We're supposed to have faith because your BS theory cannot be tested or reproduced using The Scientific Method.

Just give me one example of a new kind coming into existence. An entirely new kind of creature coming into existence and defying Entropy.

Do you understand how complex and advanced DNA is? How did gradual changes over time and random chance create DNA?

You want to believe in Evolution because you don't want to be held accountable for your actions. You want to do shit like LIE with impunity and assume there are no consequences to your actions. You buy into whatever BS this corrupt world feeds you because you are spiritually weak and easily misled.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dodge noted

Why did you lie about your connection to Sandy Hook victims?

Why are you are a lying POS? Knowing that you're a proven liar, wtf should anyone ever give a flying fuck about anything you post on these forums ever again?

Again, wrong thread. Why don't you bump the thread where I had provided all of the necessary information? Information you hadn't addressed which is why I disregard you so easily.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't get what? You can't just come back with "You just don't get it". You sound like a religious zealot. Give me concrete examples. You don't have an answer to any of those questions. Since you don't have any answer to any of those questions how about these?

They are malformed questions. Asking me how a fish became a bird or a horse becomes a squirrel aren't sensical within the context of which you ask your questions.
Let me give you an example. Would you think it silly of me if I were to ask a theologian to explain to me how the Virgin Mary saved us from our sins? It's a nonsensical question.

The thing is, I know exactly what you are trying to ask, but I also know your troll persona so unless you ask the question correctly I'm not going to answer you and invite you to play your little word games in an attempt to get me to clarify myself needlessly because by the time I get to it I'll be at work on my phone and at that point it's just not worth it.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Where did Matter come from?

A malformed question as well since there's no way (currently) to determine if existing matter in the universe came from anywhere.

A better question to ask that scientists might actually bother entertaining would be "is there a way to determine if matter had a starting point?"
This is also a question that no scientist would currently be able to answer because human understanding of science has not progressed enough to answer it. It may never get to that point. The key difference is that Scientists don't cop out and insert their magical answer to everything to fill the gap (god) just because. There's a reason that supernatural is synonymous with magical because both are fictitious.

You would of course only reach such a conclusion if you subscribe to logic. For all I know you think logic is some sort of hoax as well.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Where did the Laws of the Universe come from? Gravity ect.

This is also a malformed question similar to the one above, the difference is that it insists upon some creative force. They laws did not 'come from' anywhere, they simply are.

As far as we can tell due to background radiation and a few other things that are way beyond me the laws have existed since the beginning of time. Before you say it, yes I'm taking Stephen Hawking's word for it, if you don't like it, spin on it.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Where did the energy that would have been needed to create The Big Bang come from?

This "where.... come from" stuff, if I keep having to modify your questions to make them logical and you don't realize why I have to do so it's going to get pointless fast so after this one I'm going to skip any other "where.... come from" questions. I hope you don't think that's unfair.

That said, the correct way to ask this question is to ask Where could the energy that was released during the big bang come from? Which would have a plethora of answers that honestly don't matter in the context of this discussion.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do you explain The Cosmological Constant?

Explain... what exactly? How it works? Where it came from? Is it bunk? It's relation to gravity? The question is simply too open ended (and I'm not evading, I would be happy to address a more specific question though I'd have to do some research since theoretical physics is less than a passing fancy to me)

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Purely random chance? Hahaha ...

This is a bad word and you know it. You get a ruler to the knuckle for that one.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hpw did the first living cell come into existence? You understand how complex a cell is right? How about a plant cell? How did a plant cell come into existence? They are extremely complex. How did gradual changes over time and random chance create a plant cell?

No. Stop with the random chance crap, the universe doesn't function that way. You just asked about cosmological constants and now you are talking about chance. Please understand how self-defeating this is.
Regardless, I don't touch abiogenesis, like I had asked before "what's stopping a creator from creating life forms that are capable of evolution in order to survive and flourish on an ever-changing world?". Only one other poster even responded to the point seriously, you simply went on another "evolution is bunk" rant.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does Time cause Evolution? You guys keep preaching this false gospel of "gradual changes over time" but you never provide the force/energy/mechanism for these changes. Natural Selection just means the unfit do not survive. It doesn't cause an Evolutionary process where a new and never before kind comes into existence from another. We're supposed to have faith because your BS theory cannot be tested or reproduced using The Scientific Method.

This is another malformed question. Time is a measurement. Time causes evolution the same way speed causes driving.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just give me one example of a new kind coming into existence. An entirely new kind of creature coming into existence and defying Entropy.

First, "kinds" is not scientific jargon, it's creationist jargon which is unique to the bible. Animal biology deals with classifications and sub-categories (Fish, anphibians, reptiles, birds, mammals etc.. then jawed/jawless for fish, marsupials etc.. for mammals).
Secondly entropy is a law of thermodynamics, if you can give me a concise reason as to why you conflate thermodynamics with evolutionary biology I'll begin to entertain it, in the meantime the only honest reaction I can have to it is "wat".

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you understand how complex and advanced DNA is? How did gradual changes over time and random chance create DNA?

You used those words yet again... This is becoming frustrating. You are also again asserting that time is a force. To add insult to injury you are now stating that complexity implies design. It does not. Malformed is an understatement for this one.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You want to believe in Evolution because you don't want to be held accountable for your actions. You want to do shit like LIE with impunity and assume there are no consequences to your actions. You buy into whatever BS this corrupt world feeds you because you are spiritually weak and easily misled.

This is simply unnecessary ad-hominem with an implication that I don't want to be 'accountable' for actions, what actions? I have no idea.

Evolution is, simply put, the most plausible explanation for how life on Earth came to be the way it is today. It's not only the prevailing theory with the greatest amount of evidence to back it up, it's literally the only theory that has any evidence to back it up.

I realize that you and I have different definitions for the word "evidence", yours is simply incorrect. If that makes you angry, all the better, because at least there's some response that's been elicited so there's potential that for the first time, you may use logic to come to a conclusion.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, wrong thread. Why don't you bump the thread where I had provided all of the necessary information? Information you hadn't addressed which is why I disregard you so easily.



They are malformed questions. Asking me how a fish became a bird or a horse becomes a squirrel aren't sensical within the context of which you ask your questions.
Let me give you an example. Would you think it silly of me if I were to ask a theologian to explain to me how the Virgin Mary saved us from our sins? It's a nonsensical question.

The thing is, I know exactly what you are trying to ask, but I also know your troll persona so unless you ask the question correctly I'm not going to answer you and invite you to play your little word games in an attempt to get me to clarify myself needlessly because by the time I get to it I'll be at work on my phone and at that point it's just not worth it.


A malformed question as well since there's no way (currently) to determine if existing matter in the universe came from anywhere.

A better question to ask that scientists might actually bother entertaining would be "is there a way to determine if matter had a starting point?"
This is also a question that no scientist would currently be able to answer because human understanding of science has not progressed enough to answer it. It may never get to that point. The key difference is that Scientists don't cop out and insert their magical answer to everything to fill the gap (god) just because. There's a reason that supernatural is synonymous with magical because both are fictitious.

You would of course only reach such a conclusion if you subscribe to logic. For all I know you think logic is some sort of hoax as well.

This is also a malformed question similar to the one above, the difference is that it insists upon some creative force. They laws did not 'come from' anywhere, they simply are.

As far as we can tell due to background radiation and a few other things that are way beyond me the laws have existed since the beginning of time. Before you say it, yes I'm taking Stephen Hawking's word for it, if you don't like it, spin on it.


This "where.... come from" stuff, if I keep having to modify your questions to make them logical and you don't realize why I have to do so it's going to get pointless fast so after this one I'm going to skip any other "where.... come from" questions. I hope you don't think that's unfair.

That said, the correct way to ask this question is to ask Where could the energy that was released during the big bang come from? Which would have a plethora of answers that honestly don't matter in the context of this discussion.


Explain... what exactly? How it works? Where it came from? Is it bunk? It's relation to gravity? The question is simply too open ended (and I'm not evading, I would be happy to address a more specific question though I'd have to do some research since theoretical physics is less than a passing fancy to me)

This is a bad word and you know it. You get a ruler to the knuckle for that one.

No. Stop with the random chance crap, the universe doesn't function that way. You just asked about cosmological constants and now you are talking about chance. Please understand how self-defeating this is.
Regardless, I don't touch abiogenesis, like I had asked before "what's stopping a creator from creating life forms that are capable of evolution in order to survive and flourish on an ever-changing world?". Only one other poster even responded to the point seriously, you simply went on another "evolution is bunk" rant.

This is another malformed question. Time is a measurement. Time causes evolution the same way speed causes driving.

First, "kinds" is not scientific jargon, it's creationist jargon which is unique to the bible. Animal biology deals with classifications and sub-categories (Fish, anphibians, reptiles, birds, mammals etc.. then jawed/jawless for fish, marsupials etc.. for mammals).
Secondly entropy is a law of thermodynamics, if you can give me a concise reason as to why you conflate thermodynamics with evolutionary biology I'll begin to entertain it, in the meantime the only honest reaction I can have to it is "wat".

You used those words yet again... This is becoming frustrating. You are also again asserting that time is a force. To add insult to injury you are now stating that complexity implies design. It does not. Malformed is an understatement for this one.


This is simply unnecessary ad-hominem with an implication that I don't want to be 'accountable' for actions, what actions? I have no idea.

Evolution is, simply put, the most plausible explanation for how life on Earth came to be the way it is today. It's not only the prevailing theory with the greatest amount of evidence to back it up, it's literally the only theory that has any evidence to back it up.

I realize that you and I have different definitions for the word "evidence", yours is simply incorrect. If that makes you angry, all the better, because at least there's some response that's been elicited so there's potential that for the first time, you may use logic to come to a conclusion.

Those arguments you just used showvthatbyou have no grasp on the doctrine of evolution.

Time is not a force?
Then resist it it should be easy. Phase out if time.

You don't know what time is, is it linear? Is it static? How can you say it's not a force.

You also do a piss poor job of trying to explain the difference between speciation and the actual evolution of a new category or class of animal.

The evolutionary concept of speciation happens all the time it's more simply called adaptation, this has never been observed to cause a new class of animals unable to procreate with the class that it came from.
But yet that is what evolution hinges upon.

Slow change over time, this causes speciation, this cause the emergence of a new class distinction of animals different than it's predecessor.

That is a much simpler way to put it for you.
I get the process it's not confusing, simply not observable , testable , and repeatable.

[paulgiamatti]

Ok, I'm going to try to cut through the pretense of 145 pages of condescension and moral indignation and try a different approach to this.

We, us secular atheist non-believer folks, we don't know how the hell the universe happened. We have absolutely no idea. We really don't. I'm not being sarcastic or smarmy or anything right now. I'm being honest. We are completely at a loss as to how all of this came to be.

That's all we're trying to say. That's all we're trying to convey in 145 pages of boring, pseudo-intellectual rhetoric on a 1999-era emulated EverQuest server's Rants & Flames forum.

Forget evolution for a minute. Forget creationism for a minute. I mean, really. Just stop for a second and take a few breaths, and relax. Okay.

Now, here's where we're at. Creationists, and please correct me if I'm misrepresenting creationism here, think it's absurd that the universe came into being by sheer, unadulterated random chance. And you know what? That's totally fine. I have absolutely no problems with that.

However, I get this feeling that this is what the perceived atheistic worldview entails. I get the feeling that this is what creationists think us atheists believe about the origins of the universe - that it's random chance. This isn't what we believe! We are not saying the universe came into existence by sheer, random chance!

We are saying we have absolutely no idea how the thing came into existence! That's all we're saying! We don't know! We really, truly, inescapably do not know!

Us saying we don't know does not mean we think it was random chance. It just means we don't know. That's what science and evolutionary theory is predicated on. Not knowing anything for certain. All we're doing, in essence, is not knowing things. This is why scientists go out and conduct experiments, and find evidence, and develop hypotheses, and theorize about things. Because we don't know. Because we don't know and we really, truly want to know.

Because we can't simply accept that since it might not have been random chance, that it must have been a creator! We don't know that either! A creator being the explanation makes the exact same amount of sense to us as random chance does. That's all we're trying to say. We don't know! We seriously have no clue.

Was it a creator? Was it random chance? We don't know! But being an "atheist" doesn't mean siding with or against either one of these things. It really, truly doesn't. Atheism is just a word that describes unbelief in deity or deities. That's all it is. It's nothing more, nothing less.

Please accept this as an honest explanation of at least one atheist's worldview.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, I'm going to try to cut through the pretense of 145 pages of condescension and moral indignation and try a different approach to this.

We, us secular atheist non-believer folks, we don't know how the hell the universe happened. We have absolutely no idea. We really don't. I'm not being sarcastic or smarmy or anything right now. I'm being honest. We are completely at a loss as to how all of this came to be.

That's all we're trying to say. That's all we're trying to convey in 145 pages of boring, pseudo-intellectual rhetoric on a 1999-era emulated EverQuest server's Rants & Flames forum.

Forget evolution for a minute. Forget creationism for a minute. I mean, really. Just stop for a second and take a few breaths, and relax. Okay.

Now, here's where we're at. Creationists, and please correct me if I'm misrepresenting creationism here, think it's absurd that the universe came into being by sheer, unadulterated random chance. And you know what? That's totally fine. I have absolutely no problems with that.

However, I get this feeling that this is what the perceived atheistic worldview entails. I get the feeling that this is what creationists think us atheists believe about the origins of the universe - that it's random chance. This isn't what we believe! We are not saying the universe came into existence by sheer, random chance!

We are saying we have absolutely no idea how the thing came into existence! That's all we're saying! We don't know! We really, truly, inescapably do not know!

Us saying we don't know does not mean we think it was random chance. It just means we don't know. That's what science and evolutionary theory is predicated on. Not knowing anything for certain. All we're doing, in essence, is not knowing things. This is why scientists go out and conduct experiments, and find evidence, and develop hypotheses, and theorize about things. Because we don't know. Because we don't know and we really, truly want to know.

Because we can't simply accept that since it might not have been random chance, that it must have been a creator! We don't know that either! A creator being the explanation makes the exact same amount of sense to us as random chance does. That's all we're trying to say. We don't know! We seriously have no clue.

Was it a creator? Was it random chance? We don't know! But being an "atheist" doesn't mean siding with or against either one of these things. It really, truly doesn't. Atheism is just a word that describes unbelief in deity or deities. That's all it is. It's nothing more, nothing less.

Please accept this as an honest explanation of at least one atheist's worldview.

I accept that although it's more agnostic than atheist. Athieism is the rejection of God/gods.

Here is the problem I have with your posts so far in this thread.
You don't know I don't know how the universe started.
So I reach a conclusion that like yours must be faith based and I am perceived as immoral compared to you.

I have a problem with that.

[paulgiamatti]

Agnosticism is atheistic by definition. It's still the unbelief in deity.

What conclusion have I reached? I don't know how the universe came into existence. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.

I haven't reached a conclusion. No reasoned atheist has, either.

[paulgiamatti]

And regardless of what you or anyone else thinks, no other human being knows how the universe came into existence either. The big bang theory isn't an irrefutable fact, and that in no way detracts from its credibility in the scope of science and rationality. It's the best we've got. It's the best any believer or non-believer has, even if they don't realize it themselves.

As I said earlier, something is either true or it isn't. Just because you think, with all of your might and intellect that something is true, that doesn't make it true. It's either true or it's false. Just because you had a crazy dream, or a vision, or you contemplated the universe for decades in an isolation chamber, doesn't mean you have the answers to anything. Something is either true, or it isn't. If you can't accept this, then you are simply intellectually dishonest, and this lays the bedrock for immorality.