Taken - Sev

[sulpher01]

Originally Posted by Troubled [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure why Deru still saying multiple guilds would be suspended. Being on the hate list isn't against any written rules.

What im wondering... Why is he focusing so hard on something that isnt a rule, and completely ignoring the thing that is?? Tryin pretty hard to help taken out heh...

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Lisset [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As much as I have enjoyed your posts Swish, I'm just gonna go ahead and block you. You've turned into nothing more than a whore for red lately and that's just sad.

Truly I'm saddened that people want to see its destruction/demise with such enthusiasm. If anyone has read 1984 by George Orwell I like it to the scenes where people scream hate at "the enemy" on the telescreens (Eurasia or whoever).

If you haven't read it, you really should btw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Troubled [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure why Deru still saying multiple guilds would be suspended. Being on the hate list isn't against any written rules.

If anything that's encouraging something to be written in.

Perhaps there'll be a released P99 rulebook pdf in the future with appropriate sections, sub sections and sub sub sections? Something to think about.

[Juryiel]

It's actually a bit disheartening to see Deru saying all the guilds there are 'equally' guilty when most guilds there actively made sure to not pull Sev, and then when it was brought to zone tried to make sure their members did not engage. I don't really care what Taken's punishment is or if there is one at all, those are politics I don't care to get involved in. But looking at that hatelist and the number of people in zone it's clear that one guild had its members attack Sev while most of the rest generally do not have a kill-force on Sev's hate list. Given that Sev was pulled to the place where every single guild was camped, any guild intending to kill it would have way more people on hate list if that was their intention. Whereas now, nearly 65% of the people on there are Taken, while the remaining ~35% is split among many guilds with the next highest up being ~13% . Clearly not everyone is 'equally' guilty.

Also I can already foresee problems if it becomes an official rule to not accidentally agro mobs. But that's an RnF thread for another day :P

[Ravager]

Pretty sure he knows they messed up the ruling but GM ruling is law in this land and he can't back down. Kinda like arguing balls and strikes.

It's okay, we forgive you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ7tIfWD_FM

[Man0warr]

Taken took a calculated risk, probably thinking at worst their loot would be removed (and deny other guilds a chance at loot), and at best they could rules lawyer for some Sev loot.

The GMs have rewarded their risk.

[Argh]

How is getting all loot deleted a reward?

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is getting all loot deleted a reward?

It's not really, but what I think he means is that killing a dragon that had an illegal FTE was a calculated risk. I'm sure Taken was hoping that at best they'd get to keep the loot and at worst the loot would be deleted when the "at worst" scenario should have been something like a raid suspension + deleted loot. They got off easy.

[Locust]

problem is, other than Taken, all guilds present for FFA Severilious were playing by the written rule that you do not pull and kill the raid target until FTE resets

Taken decided to break the rule and pull/kill Severilous anyway

Taken was punished by having loot taken away, but every other guild still lost their opportunity at a raid target as a direct result of Taken's actions

how does the engage being a clusterfuck trump that?

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is getting all loot deleted a reward?

They made sure class C couldn't get it. Diabolical.

[Rais]

Originally Posted by Signal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do GMs not understand game mechanics on this server ? In the SEV thread in the raid section Derubel obviously doesn't understand the situation and he has the encounter log in front of him.

The CSR staff to a extent understand game mechanics. By the time I left staff this year, the last time I had raided on p99 was April 2012. Unless Aussie is in some top guild (doubtful) I was the last person to even raid on p99. Mechanics change over time on this server, and everything isn't like how it was on live. The staff knows a majority of stuff, yet are people just like everyone else and don't know everything.

So the CSR typically try and keep up to date on everything. Some more so than others. Somethings aren't working as they should be, and no one reports a bug report on it as example passing agro off. GMs aren't allowed to play on the server. To know every single aspect of everything, you have to keep a proficiency up on it or you lose it. It's the same thing as a CSR member who quits(not allowed to) playing and it's hard to keep up unless you tag along with some raiding guild and watch raids ask questions. Of course the buddy buddy system will evolve into hey add me on skype we can bs all the time comes into play. So then you add in being closer to some guilds than others that will give the benefit of doubt more often than not. (Look at the past, and you will see clear examples)

Now raid disputes and decisions are left to Sirken and Derubael. I think it worked better with just Sirken and having a quick little meeting of the staff and come to a conclusion. Not everyone got what they wanted, but the bottom line of facts were laid out on both sides of parties being bitches. As to the final decision, Sirken likes to be fluid, and being fluid to every single variable in every petition will not create consistency. As we see today and past rulings, no matter the GM they tend to try and be fluid and add in every possible factor and get tangled up with petition-quest. It just doesn't work. There needs to be a black and white line.

Now we have two chiefs who want to make the final say. Although it seems like they don't agree and contradict each other at times and it has already caused a few people ranting away about it, but I am sure they are on the same page most of the time. I know they confer with Rogean at times and if they have questions about mechanics or logs, Nilbog is always there happy to answer any question or test something asap. Nilbog has always been quick to test stuff, sometimes as we talked about it. Need logs, Rogean was there to do it.

They have the tools to work with. I would say a small handful of decisions that were "over turned" was because some weird mechanic came up, or misunderstanding. Overall they try and make the best decisions they can, sometimes it doesn't seem so as a player. To say the GMs have a unwritten rule about not being wrong, is wrong itself. A few raid suspensions were overturned and publicly stated and they are still posted in the raid section. Give them credit where credit is due.