Discussion: Play Nice (Training, Bind Camping)

[lethdar]

You see the problem here is pal, you've mentioned your high end guild pve / pvp experience multiple times throughout the thread, and now are adding in garbage wow and fantastic stories. It sure looks like you just tried to validate yourself loololol.

But keep on telling yourself that somehow I'm the one trying to give meaning to my opinions by referencing your past guilds and that you've "gamed with some of the best in vanilla EQ," "~".

It looks like to me that you've realized your arguments don't make sense and that your only hope is to try and distance yourself from the actual arguments. Again, in an easy format because I realize you may have some difficulties with this:

-Training is policable, intent isn't impossible to derive unless you're an autistic video game nerd, it's actually laughably insulting to GMs that you don't believe they couldn't figure out whats going on when a bard and cleric come selo da training a raid zone.

-No Rules about training murders populations, see the periods of vztz where training was legal and all of sullon zek.

-Any time TZ's "player self enforcing" broke down, PDM or whoever would only need to mass petition to get a GM to ban the offender, meaning you actually have had no experience with a ruleless server.

-Unlike VZTZ, p99 has a much better code when it comes to pulling up logs on who agroed what, this coupled with widespread knowledge of fraps makes it fairly easy to catch train situations

-The mere existence of a rule putting a character in jeopardy is enough to deter many situations that would otherwise devolve into a train fest. Again, you may fail to understand this due to an austism spectrum disorder.

-Training does not promote PVP, your belief that guilds will evacuate rather than fight unless they get trained seems fairly naive, though it probably does stem from your past experiences in shit guilds.

[vinx]

Originally Posted by lethdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Training is policable, intent isn't impossible to derive unless you're an autistic video game nerd, it's actually laughably insulting to GMs that you don't believe they couldn't figure out whats going on when a bard and cleric come selo da training a raid zone.

-No Rules about training murders populations, see the periods of vztz where training was legal and all of sullon zek.

-Any time TZ's "player self enforcing" broke down, PDM or whoever would only need to mass petition to get a GM to ban the offender, meaning you actually have had no experience with a ruleless server.

-Unlike VZTZ, p99 has a much better code when it comes to pulling up logs on who agroed what, this coupled with widespread knowledge of fraps makes it fairly easy to catch train situations

-The mere existence of a rule putting a character in jeopardy is enough to deter many situations that would otherwise devolve into a train fest. Again, you may fail to understand this due to an austism spectrum disorder.

-Training does not promote PVP

^^

[Rushmore]

Originally Posted by lethdar

You see the problem here is pal, you've mentioned your high end guild pve / pvp experience multiple times throughout the thread, and now are adding in garbage wow and fantastic stories. It sure looks like you just tried to validate yourself loololol.

But keep on telling yourself that somehow I'm the one trying to give meaning to my opinions by referencing your past guilds and that you've "gamed with some of the best in vanilla EQ," "~".

It looks like to me that you've realized your arguments don't make sense and that your only hope is to try and distance yourself from the actual arguments. Again, in an easy format because I realize you may have some difficulties with this:

-Training is policable, intent isn't impossible to derive unless you're an autistic video game nerd, it's actually laughably insulting to GMs that you don't believe they couldn't figure out whats going on when a bard and cleric come selo da training a raid zone.

-No Rules about training murders populations, see the periods of vztz where training was legal and all of sullon zek.

-Any time TZ's "player self enforcing" broke down, PDM or whoever would only need to mass petition to get a GM to ban the offender, meaning you actually have had no experience with a ruleless server.

-Unlike VZTZ, p99 has a much better code when it comes to pulling up logs on who agroed what, this coupled with widespread knowledge of fraps makes it fairly easy to catch train situations

-The mere existence of a rule putting a character in jeopardy is enough to deter many situations that would otherwise devolve into a train fest. Again, you may fail to understand this due to an austism spectrum disorder.

-Training does not promote PVP, your belief that guilds will evacuate rather than fight unless they get trained seems fairly naive, though it probably does stem from your past experiences in shit guilds.

Game Set Match

[raptorak]

Whilst we are busy changing the classic rules please get rid of hybrid exp penalty :P

[Envious]

I dont recall ever saying training promote pvp... post a link where I did? You could maybe infer it from some things I have said, maybe. I do recall saying that GM interaction based on PnP never helps because it brings in human error and the typical GM favoritism / corruption routine?

Training is not enforceable. There will always be people running into mobs on accident from PvP, people aggro'ing without knowing, and then in raid situations the "fuk it, just bring it with us we have to engage now" which should be valid imo.

As far as "player enforced" rules on TZ breaking down and someone getting a ban, there has been 1 name tossed around that I have seen. 1 guy, out of the 1500+ that played over a 4 to 5 year span. I'm sure there were more, but that does not mean that banning or even getting a warning for training was the norm.

Nobody gives a fuk about SZ, you and Macken fail to get this. That server was where all the disfunctional social rejects had to go because nobody on RZ/TZ/VZ wanted them anymore. I know 1 guy that went from TZ to SZ, and he was a bad, and could not get into any guilds because everyone knew of such. And that was after Kosta gave him a fucking RFS and he was still rejected.

Maybe your right, maybe the people that will be on R99 wont be half the community that TZ and VZ had during Classic / Kunark. Actually, you prolly are right and the R99 players will not be capable of policing themselves.

Too bad you kids need baby sitters. Thats the whole reason EQ PvP is great, the game mechanics are so open.

Who knows, maybe Uthgaard will come hold our hands for R99. Considering you caught a ban on VZ/TZ for jacking someone's gear, while my only blemish was CC'ing Roadblock and his brother / son / uncle / father / sister (whatever the fuck it was) for 5hrs and catching a 2 or 3 day suspension.

[Envious]

Oops... add ", we might get to see you catch a ban on R99" to the end of that last post.

Arshis, training was never "accepted" but was also not routinely GM enforced. It was one of those things where if you were one to do it, you had to be ready for others to really loath you and dedicate time and effort into ruining your day.

Again, thats the type of thing that made EQ PvP so fun in live, that all the dynamics were open and the players were free to do as they willed.

Maybe we will get some babysitters.

[Scribbles]

man all you people trying to argue that allowing training would be *good* for the server are either seriously delusional or trolling hard

[Envious]

Not saying training is good, saying let the players handle it and dont let GMs interfere in any way with any facet of PvP.

Learn the fucking argument you idiots.

[Scribbles]

still not sure whether delusional or troll

[mimixownzall]

Teams servers training seems right (it's war and anything goes to destory the opposing factions/teams).

Not so sure really on FFA. There is a reason why MMOs coming out are teams based - it works and is the most popular, but seeing as it is already set to be FFA, then arguing is moot.

Training isn't near as bad as it used to be. Mobs don't stop and attack others you run by who are closer; sure, they get on the aggro list, but the original trainer has to zone/die/fd for the mob to break off and own others. This mechanic eliminates a lot of outdoor training potential as bards won't be the train gods (Fansy). Won't help in dungeons against FD'ers but will eliminate a lot of outdoor trainings of opportunity.