religion

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, what you fail to understand is life forms go extinct or they continue to evolve and eventually become a new species. There is no stop button on evolution. The first colonies I described have long since died out or they have evolved on to something else. Finding them in the world today would go against the theory of evolution because that means they DIDNT evolve. No organism on earth can avoid the random mutation of genes.

So all the "living fossils" that are still around today go against the theory of evolution?

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First, you have know the exact mutations that took place and at what stages. You would also need to know the exact environment that gave rise to and selected for these traits. We have incomplete data on both so it isnt as easy as stepping in a lab with a a handful of cells.

So it can't be proven. That was my point.

It was a good story though.

[leewong]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sometime in the first billion years, life appeared on the earth’s surface. Slowly, the fossil record indicates, living organisms climbed the ladder from simple to more advanced forms. ◾Robert Jastrow, Red Giants and White Dwarfs, 1979, p. 97.

◾The critical first billion years, during which life began, are blank pages in the earth’s history. ◾Robert Jastrow, Red Giants and White Dwarfs, 1979, p. 97. Letting the Fossil Record Speak, Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation?

Seems very contradictory.

Robert is proposing a hypothesis based on observation of the fossil record. It is a guess but one built from massive amounts of circumstantial evidence.

"Slowly, the fossil record indicates, living organisms climbed the ladder from simple to more advanced forms."

Which would infer the further you traveled back in time the simpler life would be. How long would it take for life to go from strands of replicating proteins to cells by his guess would take a few billions years. We already know for a fact that the first cells appeared around 3.5 billion years ago. So proto cells would have to form much earlier.

We dont have really any fossil remains from 4billion years ago so it remains a hypothesis.

[Neyphlite]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can fathom that if time was the only real roadblock to observing evolution, that this would essentially be a cop out excuse. If all of these random and unguided mutations occurred millions and billions of years ago, then great. It take millions and billions of years for biological change from one species to another. The thing is, we are further along in the evolutionary timeline than any of those organisms. If all it takes is time, shouldn't we be seeing at least some observable evidence of one kind of anything living changing into another kind of thing?
Not bacteria that's resistant to certain antibiotics. I'm talking about real change. Alligators or sharks, some of the oldest known living things. Shouldn't they be changing in some observable way after all this time? Its been millions of years for them.

http://www.sci-news.com/biology/scie...ies-01652.html

Heres some new species just discovered in 2013...New species are found every year. Walking sharks, flying squirrels, all kinds of shit goin on. As for Aligators and sharks...They are 2 of the most alpha predators on earth. Has it ever occurred to you that they have evolved to the point where there is no need for them to evolve any further with there spot in the food chain so secured? The only thing that actively hunts sharks and gators are humans.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by Neyphlite [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.sci-news.com/biology/scie...ies-01652.html

Heres some new species just discovered in 2013...New species are found every year. Walking sharks, flying squirrels, all kinds of shit goin on. As for Aligators and sharks...They are 2 of the most alpha predators on earth. Has it ever occurred to you that they have evolved to the point where there is no need for them to evolve any further with there spot in the food chain so secured? The only thing that actively hunts sharks and gators are humans.

Species, kinds, classes, all the same thing right?

So sharks and gators pressed the stop button on evolution.

Thought that was impossible.

[Neyphlite]

http://www.cracked.com/article_19213...-our-eyes.html

http://listverse.com/2011/11/19/8-ex...ion-in-action/

[leewong]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So it can't be proven. That was my point.

It was a good story though.

No, it hasnt been proven with 100% certainty. Nothing ever is. Not sure how that negates the thousands of fossils we find, DNA results, etc that all point to evolution being an undeniable fact though.

Perhaps, you could explain why the fossil record shows a clear progression from simple proto-life to the complexity we see today. Why dont we find rabbit fossils in the Precambrian era for instance?

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Neyphlite [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.sci-news.com/biology/scie...ies-01652.html

Heres some new species just discovered in 2013...New species are found every year. Walking sharks, flying squirrels, all kinds of shit goin on. As for Aligators and sharks...They are 2 of the most alpha predators on earth. Has it ever occurred to you that they have evolved to the point where there is no need for them to evolve any further with there spot in the food chain so secured? The only thing that actively hunts sharks and gators are humans.

So those species just popped up recently? Or were they just recently officially documented? And Leewong already said that there are no species that are immune to random mutation. I was working off of his statement.

[Neyphlite]

By the way, as I said before im not against religion. I do believe in a higher power but unfortunately the only thing I can provide as "proof" of that is quoting a book written thousands of years ago and reads like fiction. There is way more concrete proof of evolution existing then that of a singular god who created everything around us.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it hasnt been proven with 100% certainty. Nothing ever is. Not sure how that negates the thousands of fossils we find, DNA results, etc that all point to evolution being an undeniable fact though.

Perhaps, you could explain why the fossil record shows a clear progression from simple proto-life to the complexity we see today. Why dont we find rabbit fossils in the Precambrian era for instance?

Because You don't find vertebrae fossils of any magnitude period Precambrian.

The Cambrian explosion works against the slow process of evolution.

Geologists have discovered many unaltered Precambrian sediments, and they contain no fossils of complex organisms.
Salvador E. Luria, Stephen Jay Gould and Sam Singer, A View of Life, p. 651.