Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Vexenu]

DSM, you keep harping on the utility value of a Shaman over a Mage, but would you not concede that a Necro would bring even more utility to the group, as well as higher DPS than a Shaman?

They can spot heal. They can snare. They can pull. They can mez on charm breaks. They can twitch. They can charm undead. They can rez. They have a much better pet. Hell, they can even root rot adds off the side the way you claim is effective!

And they are providing most of this value for the entire leveling process, not just at level 60 after acquiring the most expensive spell in the game.

It's time to face facts, DSM: your fat Ogre Shaman has no place in this group, and should be relegated to the tunnel SoWing newbs and selling potions.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM, you keep harping on the utility value of a Shaman over a Mage, but would you not concede that a Necro would bring even more utility to the group, as well as higher DPS than a Shaman?

They can spot heal. They can snare. They can pull. They can mez on charm breaks. They can twitch. They can charm undead. They can rez. They have a much better pet. Hell, they can even root rot adds off the side the way you claim is effective!

And they are providing most of this value for the entire leveling process, not just at level 60 after acquiring the most expensive spell in the game.

It's time to face facts, DSM: your fat Ogre Shaman has no place in this group, and should be relegated to the tunnel SoWing newbs and selling potions.

Necro is a great choice too. But Necros can't Malo -> Malosoni -> Slow hard mobs like Ixiblat Fer, for example.

As I said before, my choice would be Shaman/Enchanter/Necro/Cleric. You get all the utility you need for basically any fight a four man group could do, and you will still DPS fine.

[Chortles Snortles]

b-b-b-b-but guys!!!!! moST gRouPs dOnT CARe aBouT DPS
root rots adds in ur direction
(lol)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Chortles Snortles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

b-b-b-b-but guys!!!!! moST gRouPs dOnT CARe aBouT DPS

It's true. When was the last time a group asked for a gear check? If people really cared about DPS in groups, you would see gear checks all the time. Often times you are losing 20-30 DPS just by picking players with average gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Pro4F0B0I - A Shaman can get Hechaeva down 80% in 9 minutes. That is 19800 / 540 = 35 DPS, including doing all of the tanking, debuffing, slowing, and healing. With an Enchanter and a Necro, you are adding at least 115 DPS to the fight, which bumps the DPS up to 150. Just having that combination already reduces the fight time to 165 seconds. (24750 / 150) = 165. This doesn't even include the Cleric occasionally nuking since the Shaman is freeing up the Cleric's mana due to not needing to heal as much.

Most people aren't going to exchange a large amount of safety and ability to do other camps like Ixiblat Fer to save an extra minute on a fight that is already less than 3 minutes.

The content that a four man group can do just doesn't have enough HP to justify caring about boosting DPS to the limit. Even a beefy mob like Hechaeva is going down quick.

Remember, any time your group wipes, has to reset mobs, gate, etc., you are losing time too.

That is why Shaman/Enchanter/Necro/Cleric would be the best combination in my opinion. You have plenty of DPS to quickly level to 60. That's really not a tough thing to do with four people. And at 60 you maximize the high end camps you can do.

[PlsNoBan]

Kinda weird he keeps bringing up Ixiblat. It's almost like he's specifically mentioning niche scenarios where a shaman is more useful? I wonder why he'd be doing that?


P.S. Still lookin out for all those posts from people that want root rotted adds in their xp group camp. I'm sure we'll see a flood of posts any second now.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kinda weird he keeps bringing up Ixiblat. It's almost like he's specifically mentioning niche scenarios where a shaman is more useful? I wonder why he'd be doing that?


P.S. Still lookin out for all those posts from people that want root rotted adds in their xp group camp. I'm sure we'll see a flood of posts any second now.

Oh that's easy. A group of four is leveling 1-60 really fast, with or without a Mage. The question is simply do you prefer a Mage for a slightly faster leveling experience when it is already fast, or a Shaman for the ability to do high end camps at 60?

OP didn't say he was just going to level to 60 and stop, so we must also include farming level 60 content. A Shaman is the clear winner when considering both the leveling process and level 60 farming process. The Mage simply doesn't offer enough in the end game to justify their better DPS in the early game.

Again, you and the other trolls have ruined your shot at having other people post at this point. They don't want to be insulted/memed at just because they disagree with you lol.

[cd288]

Lmao this guy is STILL here writing novels days later. I wonder if DSM will hit a thousand posts in this thread

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh that's easy. A group of four is leveling 1-60 really fast, with or without a Mage. The question is simply do you prefer a Mage for a slightly faster leveling experience when it is already fast, or a Shaman for the ability to do high end camps at 60?

OP didn't say he was just going to level to 60 and stop, so we must also including farming level 60 content. A Shaman is the clear choice when considering both the leveling and farming process. The Mage simply doesn't offer enough in the end game to justify their better DPS in the early game.

Ahh yes cause there are sooooooooo many camps that enc/enc/mag/clr couldn't easily do that enc/enc/shm/clr could do no problem. You're totally right what was I thinking? There's Ixiblat Fer and uhh... Ixiblat Fer and Fungi King? Oh wait no they could do fungi king np. Well there's Ixiblat Fer! I'm actually not even sure what the best charm available in BW is. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they could do it just fine without a shaman but for the sake of argument I'll let you have this one. Are we now suggesting shaman is the right choice to make 1 or 2 niche mobs/camps easier at lvl 60? Rather than the CLEARLY better option for lvling 1-60 and at MOST other camps in the game? You know the class that does 50% more dps than shamans by your own data? That's assuming they don't have an epic in which case would be more than 50% increase over mediocre shaman dps?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ahh yes cause there are sooooooooo many camps that enc/enc/mag/clr couldn't easily do that enc/enc/shm/clr could do no problem. You're totally right what was I thinking? There's Ixiblat Fer and uhh... Ixiblat Fer and Fungi King? Oh wait no they could do fungi king np. Well there's Ixiblat Fer! I'm actually not even sure what the best charm available in BW is. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they could do it just fine without a shaman but for the sake of argument I'll let you have this one.

Are we now suggesting shaman is the right choice to make 1 or 2 niche mobs/camps easier at lvl 60? Rather than the CLEARLY better option for lvling 1-60 and at MOST other camps in the game? You know the class that does 50% more dps than shamans by your own data? That's assuming they don't have an epic in which case would be more than 50% increase over mediocre shaman dps?

Again, you are just ignoring other aspects of the game. A Shaman decreases your groups chances of wiping throughout the 1-60 process and at high level camps. They also save your group mana since they can handle things like slowing and healing too. You are only focusing on DPS, because that is the only argument you can make for Mage vs. Shaman.

If you are going to assume perfect play (no group wipes), Mage still loses. Just roll four Enchanters since your group is the best of the best. It doesn't need any support. You can have pocket clerics for the occasional CHing pets or resing.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you are just ignoring other aspects of the game. A Shaman decreases your groups chances of wiping throughout the 1-60 process and at high level camps. They also save your group mana since they can handle things like slowing and healing too. You are only focusing on DPS, because that is the only argument you can make for Mage vs. Shaman.

If you are going to assume perfect play (no group wipes), Mage still loses. Just roll four Enchanters since your group is the best of the best. It doesn't need any support. You can have pocket clerics for the occasional CHing pets or resing.

Have you ever been in a group with 2 enchanters and a cleric? Because I have and from the way you talk I'm going to assume you never have and have no idea how powerful it is and how little danger is involved if everyone is at least moderately good at the game. Judging by your signature I'm going to assume the only classes you have any real experience with are Shaman and SK. So it makes sense you wouldn't understand this. I've been in similar groups as the enchanter AND as the cleric. I know fairly well how the group functions and what it's capable of. Shaman brings next to nothing to the table that actually matters besides malo and mediocre added damage. You know who else brings malo (negligible difference from shaman malo)? Mage. Know who also does 50% (or more) more damage than shaman? Mage. Know who doesn't need to increase the risk and cause chaos to do respectable damage by root rotting adds all over? Mage.

2 encs and a cleric do not need:
Your healing
Your slows
Your roots
Your dots (mobs die too fast)
Your tanking
Your pet

Mobs generally die too fast and charm pets are too tanky to even worry about slowing but if you do need slow enc slow is only 5% less than yours. Your slow doesn't matter in the least. Your malo is slightly better than mage but again a negligible amount. I've held charm pets with both mage and shaman malo for extended periods and it's literally impossible to tell the difference. Mage doing significantly more DPS vastly outweighs it. All your other "utility" is worthless in this group. You keep droning on and on about utility and "safety". This group is not in any danger at just about any camp in the game. They don't need more safety. Stop grasping at straws. Nobody is calling shaman a bad class. It's one of the strongest classes in the game in many respects. This particular situation? Shaman is not that great and certainly not needed or better than several alternatives. As someone else already pointed out you could make a strong case for necro as a better option than shaman as well.


P.S. Still lookin out for all those posts from people that want root rotted adds in their xp group camp. I'm sure we'll see a flood of posts any second now.