Game Mechanics: Mellee miss rate seems excessively high.

[Morndenkainen]

Haynar, two questions...
1. For the hard data that you have, at what point or levels do you feel the miss rate is off slightly?
2. What is the current hit/miss formula?

I understand if you dont want to post the formula for the world to see, PM's work.

[km2783]

Originally Posted by Morndenkainen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haynar, two questions...
1. For the hard data that you have, at what point or levels do you feel the miss rate is off slightly?
2. What is the current hit/miss formula?

I understand if you dont want to post the formula for the world to see, PM's work.

He said back on page 18 that melee were actually hitting a bit too much, so it's not less. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Just FYI, in case you missed the post. But the mitigation issues could explain larger amounts of low damage hits.

[Kainzo]

Originally Posted by km2783 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He said back on page 18 that melee were actually hitting a bit too much, so it's not less. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Just FYI, in case you missed the post. But the mitigation issues could explain larger amounts of low damage hits.

At 25 - im missing more than 35% of the time. I won't make a fuss about it unless I hit 50 and I'm still missing the same amount on BLUE mobs.

[President]

Originally Posted by Kainzo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At 25 - im missing more than 35% of the time. I won't make a fuss about it unless I hit 50 and I'm still missing the same amount on BLUE mobs.

Got some parses/screenshots on that? Do not remember seeing anything like that.

[Morndenkainen]

Originally Posted by km2783 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He said back on page 18 that melee were actually hitting a bit too much, so it's not less. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Just FYI, in case you missed the post. But the mitigation issues could explain larger amounts of low damage hits.

Im assuming the majority of the data he has is from a level 50 player, I'd just like to know what the data says that level 50 warrior/whatever is fighting. A level 12 mob? A level 50 mob? And what the actual miss % should be. It would REALLY help if I'd had some actual numbers to work off, but since finding parses seems next to impossible, (for me atleast) im left to go off of memory, and what other people "remember" as well.

Think of it this way. If a lev 50, fighting a level 50 mob, is supposed to miss 35-38% of the time, dont you think that a Lev 50 fighting a level 32 mob, should be hitting alot more than 65% of the time? Which I believe Presidents picture clearly shows...

Given the informantion Haynar has already provided and my current miss rate, I should be missing almost 38-43% of the time against a level 7 mob.. The char level 14 now and has offense/weapon skills maxed. I know thats not right. Can I prove it? No. Can you prove im wrong? No. Regardless, most people would agree the miss rate should be alot lower, especially considering that the melee skills I have are more than adequate to beat out a creatures thats 1/2 my level. Otherwise warriors will continue to be ineffective tanks because they simply cant hit.. Given the formula I tossed Haynar, the miss rate for what im fighting would be approximatley 18% lower or around 20-23%, which although sounds high, is still alot more accurate than it currently is.

Come to think of it, Does anyone out there with a level 19 or higher Melee char ever miss a level 1 mob?

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by Morndenkainen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haynar, two questions...
1. For the hard data that you have, at what point or levels do you feel the miss rate is off slightly?
2. What is the current hit/miss formula?

I understand if you dont want to post the formula for the world to see, PM's work.

I am not going to debate what is correct or not. What is right or not. If you remember back in velious, everyone had a parser. And everyone knew how AC worked. And everyone knew that HP > All. And they were wrong.

There are tons of parses on the monk boards. The warrior boards. And Brael over at the SK boards just rocks. I hear he plays a char here sometimes too.

The list of people who have figured out a large part of how it really works is long.

The list of people who think they know how it really works, but don't, is longer.

I am an open source type of guy. I am all for sharing code, but this is not an open source project. But I will post links to the resources I use for figuring out information. There are lots of gaps at the low end. So much of that is just guessing, and extrapolating (with adjustments) to live.

The miss rates currently, are not off much from what classic was. So I am going to quit responding to people who complain about miss rates. And this thread. If you need hard evidence, that this is how classic really was, then go build yourself a time machine, and go back to 1999.

Haynar

[Yoite]

anyone using GameParse? it was working fine last time i was using it on live, but i cant get it working fully on P99.

I can get it to read the data of a fight and it will show my current fight data, so i can see my dmg and dps and others dmg and dps and total dps, so i know its sorta working. But it is not "recording" any fights so i can go back and review the detailed data such as miss/hits etc etc etc.

Don't wanna turn this into a gamparse discussion but if anyone is using it and has it working on P99 can you send me a PM?

[Kainzo]

use YALP parser. It was the classic parser, for kunark/veilous.

As I type this, I realize I no longer have the classic Version and Yalp.org is now shut down. This saddens me. I will take an hour to reflect on what this does to my life and how it changes my parsing ability.

[Striiker]

Thank you Haynar for the responses. I was noticing how badly my SK was doing with his 2-Hander. I thought that I must be experiencing a lot of bad luck against those Blackburrow gnolls but now see that I am not alone.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Aside from Haynar's own admissions that the miss % should probably be higher based on his initimate knowledge of the internal workings of the melee equations and the mitigation parameters on the mobs, we have NO WAY of adjusting this to EQ Live 1999, at least in the level range you're describing, based on anything other than speculation or a personal opinion. Which is no way to adjust one of the most fundamental, game-balancing equations in the code.

So unless we invent a time machine, go back to 1999, parse some shit as a level 10-20 against mobs in the range we're talking about here, all the effort on this thread could have been spent... well... leveling your character (in a group, since blues can't be soloed effectively) up to the level where those equations no longer break down and you are relatively satisfied with your hit ratio where it doesn't ruin the game for you personally. Just as hundreds of melees on the server have before us, without it being game-breaking for them.

I understand your frustration, but you're trying to change something where the data you need to back up your claims no longer exists. Even if Haynar PMs you the melee equations, all you can do is reply back to him "Well, I *think* this is how this equation needs to be adjusted for encounters with a level difference of X..." which, does not guarantee that it moves the resulting damage curves closer to EQ Live 1999 in any fashion, and risks completely breaking the game when right now it is clearly playable.