Necro, how do you not choose Iksar?

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think everyone agrees there's perks to HP regen. The argument presented, at least from my end, is that there are a good amount of situations out there where it doesn't make much of a difference.

The people who say there's no situations where it doesn't help I think are flat out wrong. For example, sometimes I pop my necro on, check if there's names up in HS and if they are I kill them then log back out. I don't stick around and clear stuff for hours. Where's the regen advantage if you're doing a bursts? There's lots of other examples as well.

Well... The advantage is if charm breaks or root breaks early and you get damaged and have to FD. Or if it happens before you've life tapped, which may lead to a situation where an equally geared Iksar wouldn't have died cause he was losing less HP liching.

The main point I think is, when you're creating a Necro you have a variety of options that boil down to 2:

Iksar - Regen which is clearly useful in many situations, but you level slower
Non-Iksar - No Regen so you will eventually have to lifetap more, but you level a bit faster.

If you are interested in plowing through levels and you don't want a penalty you can go non-Iksar, but then at the end game where the regen makes the most difference you won't have it? Doesn't make sense to me to power to the end game if you aren't interested in min/maxing there.

If leveling speed doesn't matter to you, I don't see any reason one would go any race except Iksar other than for fashionquest, and again... 34-60, you won't see your race at all because you will be liching.

[Teppler]

When picking Necro the prospective Necro needs to weigh options. Answering if regen is useful is one question. Then the next question is, how useful is it exactly? Is it useful enough to make you pick Iksar over the other races? The 2nd part is what I'm addressing. As far as I'm concerned, answering question 1 is open and shut but most people seem to be stuck on it.

[Daldaen]

The real question is why would you NOT pick an Iksar I think. That is the side that needs to give compelling reasons for picking human, gnome, erudite, and dark elf.

None provide particularly useful racial abilities, and their innate stats can all be fixed by gearing. Gnomes get tinkering and wall look... But you can buy tinkered stuff t and shrink pots. Dark elves get hide but CoS and FD make that obsolete quite quickly. Erudites get high INT but that's offsetable by gear. Humans get nothing.

So the only reason I've heard is "because I want to", which is fine - But if you create a thread asking what race to pick, people will give you min/max reasons. Only you can decide personal fashionquest importance for you.

Also to keep in mind the Necro class will almost always be in Skeleton form post 34 due to Lich so even if you love your race pick, you won't see it because you Lich. Unless your desire to fashionquest leads you to never using Lich, which at that point I would say pick a different class cause that's dumb.

[Teppler]

To pick another class you have to weigh stats, fashion quest, w/e else > regen. To make a good education decision on the matter it helps to talk about just how valuable regen is.

[absol]

People don't just pick DE, Eru, Gnome, Human or whatever for their looks alone. Often its because of the lore attached to the race, the starting area so they can be close to friends, or because they're close to popular hubs like EC, it could be the starting stats, there could be equipment reasons, faction reasons, etc.

Picking a non-optimal race can't be explained by throwing the term "fashionquest" around. I don't know why some of you guys are doing that.

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real question is why would you NOT pick an Iksar I think. That is the side that needs to give compelling reasons for picking human, gnome, erudite, and dark elf.

No they don't. Nobody has to give anyone else 'compelling reasons' for their race choice. What is this?

[Monty405]

I want to be a special snowflake

Therefore I did not roll iksar

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by absol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No they don't. Nobody has to give anyone else 'compelling reasons' for their race choice. What is this?

If you wish to be a special snowflake or you don't care about min/maxing, of course you don't need to provide a compelling reason because you don't care about the argument I was making, and again, that's fine play what you want. I'm not going to interrogate you as to why you didn't pick Iksar.

But don't try to justify that a gnome is equally as powerful/efficient as an Iksar in all circumstances, because they aren't. Regen is clearly the most beneficial stat a Necromancer can have due to the nature of Lich spells, and Iksar is the only race that provides this stat, which cannot be replaced or offset by gear or spells, like other races innate stats or abilities can be.

If you didn't come for min/maxing and you REALLY care about what your race looks like (ignoring the fact that 34+ you will be a skeleton for most of your playtime), then roll whatever you wish! If you came to try to min/max and get the most efficiency and power out of your character, roll an Iksar.

[absol]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you wish to be a special snowflake or you don't care about min/maxing, of course you don't need to provide a compelling reason because you don't care about the argument I was making, and again, that's fine play what you want. I'm not going to interrogate you as to why you didn't pick Iksar.

You said the people who don't pick Iksar should be giving compelling arguments as to why they didn't. I picked DE, so that meant me. Your statement was pretty much all-encompassing. If you meant something else, fair enough, but what you meant and what you said are two different things.

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But don't try to justify that a gnome is equally as powerful/efficient as an Iksar in all circumstances, because they aren't. Regen is clearly the most beneficial stat a Necromancer can have due to the nature of Lich spells, and Iksar is the only race that provides this stat, which cannot be replaced or offset by gear or spells, like other races innate stats or abilities can be.

I've never said that. In fact I agree that the Iksar is the most efficient race for the Necro and I've said as much earlier in the thread. I've never tried to play down their regen, but what I have said is that it isn't a good enough reason to play Iksar for me.

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you didn't come for min/maxing and you REALLY care about what your race looks like (ignoring the fact that 34+ you will be a skeleton for most of your playtime), then roll whatever you wish! If you came to try to min/max and get the most efficiency and power out of your character, roll an Iksar.

Again, you're trying to assert that the reason people pick non-Iksar is because of 'fashionquest', even if you've been careful to try and avoid that term. Its not just about looks.

[ghost182]

I think Iksar makes for the better race 50+, can't agrue against that. I think the zones and mob types are a wash. Kurds tower vs befallen.. Kaesora in ku ark. Everything else is crap ZEM and you aren't bound to a continent either it's easy to travel. My point would be that regardless of race, necro is just a powerful class in general. You can optimize and go iksar, you can pick what race you like the look of. That's all fine. It's a strong class regardless. Doesn't need to be a debate

[Daldaen]

Well look at the beginning stats of the races.

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So Iksars have 10 more STR, 5-15 less CHA, and WIS/DEX/AGI are basically useless. So from these stats there isn't really much reason to pick one race or the other.

All races have basically the same STA, 65/70/75. None have a clear winner in this stat. 5 STA means 12 HP at level 60. Such a minuscule value, not going to make much difference ever.

Iksars have 85 INT, which is 23 behind gnome, 24 behind DE and 32 behind Erudite. Basically what this means is an Iksar will need to devote most of their creation stats to INT. while the other races can get away with either stacking INT or pouring theirs into STA. (at level 60, the 25 STA will amount to 60 HP)

At level 60 in Velious most mains will cap out their primary stat (INT) with typical gearing, regardless of base stat. A non-Iksar possibly can focus on HP gear before an Iksar can if they care about capping it. However most good HP/Mana pieces for Necros in Velious also come with INT on them, so a high INT player will end up wasting a lot of it by going over cap.

So the choice is, as a non-Iksar you may dump 25 into STA and get an extra 60 HP later on, or dump it into INT, and sit around 130-140 base INT, allowing you to focus on HP/Mana gear once you cap out (125-115 item/spell INT).

Or... Go Iksar, get gear to equalize the beginning stat difference, and have a racial ability that stacks with everything and cannot be replaced.

Everyone makes mistakes in game, gets hit, needs and FD. Having regen helps in these cases, helps when you're twitching on raids, helps you root rot or fear kite more efficiently, helps you be more efficient in groups. There really is no argument for picking a non-Iksar beyond fashion/you made it before Kunark/you made your classic character.

Regen matters whenever your health isn't 100%, which when you're liching is almost always.