Mage pet nerf 100% bot now....

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Toothed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Show me proof aliens don't exist. You can't? Guess they exist then. You guys been learning how to debate from Neil De'grASS tryson?

So what’s your alternative then? We just make changes based on someone from the forums swearing that they remember things a certain way? You’re not acting in good faith here

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Looking for evidence for how eq was so we can reconstruct it is literally the entire point of the server. Actually playing the game, levelling toons and so on is just an entertaining sideshow.

Oh without a doubt. The problem we have on the forums is that people will just pick an opinion and parrot it without any evidence at all, or they will find old forum posts saying X and ignore the posts that contradict them and cite those as evidence. Fortunately it seems the devs have a higher standard

[Toothed]

I remember a mage pet being a hell of a beast back in the day. Hitting for 58 tho? I mean come on there's no way that is correct is there? Where's the evidence?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh without a doubt. The problem we have on the forums is that people will just pick an opinion and parrot it without any evidence at all, or they will find old forum posts saying X and ignore the posts that contradict them and cite those as evidence. Fortunately it seems the devs have a higher standard

The problem is, there just isn't evidence for some things. I know you don't have the original live charm rates, because if you did you'd post them and show me that P99 is correct [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] And it's not just you: no one does.

Back in 99-01, no one repeatedly charmed the same mob, for a statistically relevant number of times ... and then did the same at a variety of levels ... then did all that separately for each charming class ... and then saved all of their results for future Nilbog! As a result, our emulator is based on what limited evidence we do have: maybe some small subset of those experiments performed on the EQ Mac server (which went up to what, PoP? LDoN?).

Now, let me ask you something: did you play Street Fighter II? If so, you'd know that Ryu was a popular character, who had a powerful dragon punch attack. If I were to make a Street Fighter II emulator, and no one wanted to dragon punch with Ryu ... do I need to know the exact amount of damage for the dragon punch to know that I got wrong? Or can I tell that my emulator isn't emulating the original game properly, because people aren't playing my emulator the way they played the original?

We know warriors joined groups and tanked on live ... and they do the same here. Score one for our emulator, it plays the same as the game it's emulating. We also know Shaman grouped some, and soloed some by root/rotting on live ... and they do the same here. Score another.

In fact, score one for every class in the game, because they fundamentally play the same way here as they did on live! No one says "oh Mages play completely differently here than they did on live because our Internet connections are beter" ... they say "wow playing a Mage here is just like it was on live!"

When it comes to everything else, our emulator is pretty damn awesome: it emulates the game from 99-01 almost exactly ... except when it comes to charm classes ... which inexplicably don't get played in our emulator the way they did in the original.

[Gustoo]

Good analysis Loramin.

All we know is that they aren't getting played the same.

If there was no charm spell on p99 when it launched I don't think anyone would even miss it "charm doesn't work" and all the p99 enchies would be playing like the live enchies did. Ha.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Toothed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I remember a mage pet being a hell of a beast back in the day. Hitting for 58 tho? I mean come on there's no way that is correct is there? Where's the evidence?

Max level staff focused water hits for 62. Nukes for 120. Backstabs for 140.

It's not the old pet. It's still quite viable even compared to EOT for tanking or the 53 rogue skelly pet for dps. If anything this patch is a kick in the tail to get that phinny staff.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is, there just isn't evidence for some things. I know you don't have the original live charm rates, because if you did you'd post them and show me that P99 is correct [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] And it's not just you: no one does.

Back in 99-01, no one repeatedly charmed the same mob, for a statistically relevant number of times ... and then did the same at a variety of levels ... then did all that separately for each charming class ... and then saved all of their results for future Nilbog! As a result, our emulator is based on what limited evidence we do have: maybe some small subset of those experiments performed on the EQ Mac server (which went up to what, PoP? LDoN?).

Now, let me ask you something: did you play Street Fighter II? If so, you'd know that Ryu was a popular character, who had a powerful dragon punch attack. If I were to make a Street Fighter II emulator, and no one wanted to dragon punch with Ryu ... do I need to know the exact amount of damage for the dragon punch to know that I got wrong? Or can I tell that my emulator isn't emulating the original game properly, because people aren't playing my emulator the way they played the original?

We know warriors joined groups and tanked on live ... and they do the same here. Score one for our emulator, it plays the same as the game it's emulating. We also know Shaman grouped some, and soloed some by root/rotting on live ... and they do the same here. Score another.

In fact, score one for every class in the game, because they fundamentally play the same way here as they did on live! No one says "oh Mages play completely differently here than they did on live because our Internet connections are beter" ... they say "wow playing a Mage here is just like it was on live!"

When it comes to everything else, our emulator is pretty damn awesome: it emulates the game from 99-01 almost exactly ... except when it comes to charm classes ... which inexplicably don't get played in our emulator the way they did in the original.

And there are multiple reasons for why they get played differently than they did at launch which I went into in the post. Plenty of reasons beyond “charm works differently”. The simple fact of the matter is you don’t have any evidence to back up your argument beyond “well I don’t remember it being this way” and if that’s the standard then we might as well nerf a million things (mages using coth as a meta raid strategy, MQs, shaman torpor soloing, certain camps being constantly taken, the list goes on and on and on).

[Toothed]

I mean pretty much everything you named was done on live but ok

[bomaroast]

I played a magician back in the day, and I've been saying that magician pets were overpowered for as long as I've been on P99. The lower level pets still are. The defensive tables are wrong.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Toothed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean pretty much everything you named was done on live but ok

Oh for sure it was. But not right off the bat. Most of those things didn’t become as common until Velious (similar to Ench charm soloing) because it took time for everyone to figure out the strategies, mechanics, meta methods, etc.

But at any rate, if you were to say “no I remember those occurring before Velious” you might be right and my memory might be incorrect. Or my memory might correct or yours might be wrong. Or our servers could have quite literally been completely different in terms of what the player base was doing (that wasn’t uncommon back in the classic era). Point being, saying “I remember it being this way” or “I know it was this way” doesn’t really mean anything because someone else could have a completely different recollection or experience.